Fourth valve suggestion

elimia · Post by **elimia** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:02 pm

I sure hope someone has a similar concern so I don't feel stupid asking this...

I bought a 4 valve (in-line) euphonium this year. As much as I yearned for a 3 + 1 model, I just couldn't locate one in my price range. While I really enjoy the horn I have, I'm just not comfortable with having my pinky mashing down this valve. I played a Yamaha 642 in college with the 3 + 1 alignment and loved it. As soon as I can afford an upgrade to something like this in a few years I am returning to it. In the meantime I need to make the best of this horn but I really don't want to have to change to using the pinky; I don't see how anyone can be comfortable doing that. To this point I have been reaching around using my left hand index finger to play 4th valve. It has caused me to use my right hand more than I should to support the horn and has altered my right hand angle.

Low Brass pros/ serious amatuers out there: Should I let myself continue with this awkward position, or is there a 4th valve product out there that would allow for a 3+1 simulation. Or should I mix in using 1st and 3rd valves on fast passages with lip compensation, and the pinky 4th valve on slower passages.

I yearn for a Wilson...

elimia · Post by **elimia** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:26 pm

I have a Weril 980, great for the price.

I actually bought an Allora 3+1 euphonium (made by VMI) for a few days and promptly returned it. It couldn't play in tune for anything. I really wanted to WANT to keep it but felt it wasn't worth it.

I've fiddled with the 4th valve the traditional way, I just have a small hand which invariably involves me flailing my pinky over to cover the valve.

JB · Post by JB » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:11 pm

elimia wrote:Should I let myself continue with this awkward position...

No.

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:18 pm

If you're planning on getting a 3+1 horn some day anyway, I would continue using your left index finger for the fourth valve. I've heard other players doing the same thing. I could never move my little finger without the third finger moving with it.

I've never heard of a contraption that you could attach to your horn that would allow you to use the horn like a 3+1.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:44 pm

Now that's strange.

Tuba players prefer the inline arrangement over the 3+1 and even go so far as to put a fifth valve on the right thumb. And their valves are larger and heavier with stronger springs than those on the average euphonium...

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:38 am

Rick F wrote: I could never move my little finger without the third finger moving with it.

I guess piano's not your instrument, huh?

But this reminds me that I've seen folks who don't have 6-toed cat in their lineage playing the old 5-valve side-action Conn double-bell euphoniums by actuating the 5th (switch) inline valve with the left hand.

Highams · Post by **Highams** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:32 am

I played the Yamaha 321 many years ago and liked the set up. I found that it made my 3rd. finger feel much stronger, rather than it being the weakest in the 3+1 set up.

www.euph9.freeserve.co.uk

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:38 am

I regard four in-line valves as perfectly natural because that's what I've always played. A couple of weeks ago I borrowed a Besson 3 + 1 for a week while touring England. It drove me crazy! I ended up not using the 'side shifter' and stuck with just three valves. I guess it's what you get used to. Have you considered a rotary-valved horn?

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:39 pm

TubaTinker wrote: I guess it's what you get used to.

I'll bet that's it.

It's like playing trombone with an F attachment -- it's just something you'd learn to do.

Heck, it's not natural anyway to be pressing buttons and buzzing lips at the same time.

pg · Post by pg » Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:14 pm

I attended a master class once where the instructor suggested strengthening and gaining coordination in your pinky (and 3rd finger) by shifting your hand (middle finger on 1st valve, pinky on 3rd) and playing scales and other technical pieces. Then shift once more for those pieces that need only two valves. This helped me until I eventually got back to a 3+1 horn (which was what I was used to).

--paul;

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:37 pm

Chuck wrote:I guess piano's not your instrument, huh?

You're so right Chuck!

elimia · Post by **elimia** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:02 pm

Yeah, I never learned piano.

Some good suggestions as always folks. I may be web-bullied into working harder at using the pinky. The 2-4 combination is going to take some getting used to, though. I'll give it my best though.

Happy tootin' all!

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:01 pm

***TANGENT***

I just now remembered playing Tekken 3 (one of those 3-D fighting games) in the arcade on a unique machine.

The button layout is normally in a square, with the two punch buttons on top and the two kick buttons on the bottom. This machine, however, had them all in a straight line -- left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick.

After deciphering some of the special moves & combos, it was MUCH easier for me to play well on that four-in-a-row machine than it ever was on the regular square-layout machines. It was just like using fingerings, and I could rattle off moves with no problem.

Which brings me to another point -- I'd like to learn how to type with one of those small keyboards that uses "chording" to choose letters rather than one button per letter. It might be pretty quick.

Kevin Miller · Post by **Kevin Miller** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:30 pm

I've been playing a Besson 981 Eb (3+1) exclusively for the past 13 years. I recently bought a Schmidt 5 valve BBb. I just had no choice, sucked it up and got used to using the pinky again. The proper motivation will overcome perceived little discomforts. Just practice working 4th and 2 and 4 as a finger exercise(no playing, just finger execises on the horn)

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