Brass Band & Treble Clefs

[Lew]

Brass band music for Eb tuba is probably the easiest transition to make, in my opinion. It is written such that the concert Eb is written as a treble clef C. Therefore the notes are in the same position in treble clef as they would be in bass clef. The only thing to remember is that the key of C represents the key of Eb. So, you can play treble clef Eb tuba music as if it were in bass clef by just adding 3 flats. This also means that you have to remember that a written F is a concert Ab and therefore when you see an F# in treble clef you need to play an A, and similarly for G(Bb), and C(Eb).

[Bob Mosso]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

For Brass Band, regardless of the instrument use a trumpet or TC euph fingering chart.

[Dan Schultz]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

For Brass Band, regardless of the instrument use a trumpet or TC euph fingering chart.

Sure.... but ONLY if the music is written in treble clef.

[iiipopes]

To distill the above into a general format:
1) With the exception of bass trombone, all brass band instruments play in treble clef transposed, with the lowest not not a pedal played open valves as middle C. Any trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn, or treble clef euphonium fingering chart will work.
2) Bass trombone plays bass clef concert pitch. (As the original bass trombone in brass band convention was the B&H G pitch trombone, and not a Bb with an F trigger, and did not fit in with the Bb & Eb scheme of things)
3) The convention for playing Eb brass band tuba parts written in transposed treble clef for those who only read concert pitch bass clef is to write a bass clef sign over the treble clef sign and add three [edit - strike sharps] flats to the key signature. This works for any tuba, since tuba players read bass clef concert pitch in the USA, regardless of the pitch of the instrument.
4) Euph, trombone & BBb bass are more tricky. It's better just to learn to read treble clef with a fingering or position chart at hand.
5) There is probably an exception somewhere out there, please don't flame me on it.
6) If you lack tenor horns and true British baritones, in a pinch alto sax and tenor sax can cover the parts, as they are written in the same convention and are roughly the same range. It's not true Brit, but it fills the holes until you can find someone with the real horn.
7) As for the soprano cornet, either transpose, or everyone chip in to buy one and have the high brass guy with the biggest ego who has never played a higher pitched trumpet play it. Half way through the first piece, when he's gasping for air, he'll be ready to buy the next round right then and there just to get a break.

[Chuck(G)]

3) The convention for playing Eb brass band tuba parts written in transposed treble clef for those who only read concert pitch bass clef is to write a bass clef sign over the treble clef sign and add three sharps to the key signature. This works for any tuba, since tuba players read bass clef concert pitch in the USA, regardless of the pitch of the instrument.

I believe that it's three FLATS, not sharps. In other words, if you're looking at a treble clef key signature of D (2 sharps), you'd play it as if there were one flat (key of F) bass clef. However, this is only a stopgap because accidentals will eventually throw a monkey wrench into your mental works.

4) Euph, trombone & BBb bass are more tricky. It's better just to learn to read treble clef with a fingering or position chart at hand.

Actually, for trombone, it's easier, assuming the trombonist knows how to read tenor clef. Just add a flat to the TC part and read it as if it were tenor clef. So, you see a treble clef 3rd space C, you play it as a tenor clef Bb; a 4th line TC D, you play it as a tenor clef C, etc.

Euphonium players, I suppose don't read tenor clef, though I have no idea why.

[GC]

A few exceptions and comments:

1. I have seen a couple of parts with tenor trombones written in tenor clef (oh, the horror!!!)

2. More and more charts seem to be coming with optional Eb & BBb tuba parts in concert pitch (sometimes labeled as CC basstuba and CC contrabass tuba); sometimes baritone, euphonium, and trombone parts in bass clef are included, but not substituted for the treble clef parts

3. solo, 1st, and 2nd F horn parts are sometimes included as an alternative to Eb blatweasel parts

4. It's not hard to work your way into treble clef by working through a graded trumpet method book series.

[iiipopes]

Oops! What he said -- 3 flats.

I did comment that the generalities were for those who only read bass clef.

It is true about the tenor clef. But at some point the "tricks" become so complicated it is just as easy to learn both, or all in the case of those who also know tenor clef. Or alto clef as well for that matter.[/i]

[Chuck(G)]

A few exceptions and comments:

1. I have seen a couple of parts with tenor trombones written in tenor clef (oh, the horror!!!)

...and sometimes you see trombone tenor clef in a Bb transposition (now that's scary!).

2. More and more charts seem to be coming with optional Eb & BBb tuba parts in concert pitch (sometimes labeled as CC basstuba and CC contrabass tuba); sometimes baritone, euphonium, and trombone parts in bass clef are included, but not substituted for the treble clef parts

I've seen it on brass ensemble pieces from the UK but not on a standard written-and-published-in-the-UK brass band chart. European publishers sometimes have "world parts" (bass clef in C transposition, treble clef in Bb and Eb transposition and (horrors!) bass clef in Bb and Eb transposition).

3. solo, 1st, and 2nd F horn parts are sometimes included as an alternative to Eb blatweasel parts

For real UK brass band chart, I've never seen this. I've seen this in "world parts" and US band music though.

4. It's not hard to work your way into treble clef by working through a graded trumpet method book series.

I've long thought that trumpet Arbans is the way to go. It doesn't make any difference what key instrument you're playing, the fingering remains the same. And it's cheaper.

[Chuck(G)]

Kurt, what's a BB? I'm confused and I play in a brass band.

[iiipopes]

I think he's using "BB" as an abbreviation for "flats" (plural). Which, with his shorthand, would render the famous quote:

To B or not to B, that is the question
Whether 'tis nobler in the hearts of men
To suffer the slings and arrows of
Outrageous minor and diminished keys,
Or by opposing, end thee
With a mighty Picardy --
Aye, there's the rub.

[Biggs]

To me the miracle of the british system is just the possibility to swap the players around the band,every player reads and fingers the music in the same way,except bassbone as before mentioned,but that´s a different story.

I don't know if I'd consider my cornet playing to be a 'miracle.'

[iiipopes]

Actually, the system was not developed with switching players in mind. Since it came basically out of working class environments as a way to give workers a hobby and esprit de corp, it developed as a way to teach them all the fundamentals of playing in a group setting, as private lessons were basically non-existant, and the teacher was usually the guy who just learned last year before a new group of workers was taken on.

[Chuck(G)]

Actually, the system was not developed with switching players in mind. Since it came basically out of working class environments as a way to give workers a hobby and esprit de corp, it developed as a way to teach them all the fundamentals of playing in a group setting, as private lessons were basically non-existant, and the teacher was usually the guy who just learned last year before a new group of workers was taken on.

The other benefit is that you can use the same method books across the entire range of instruments. (Well, maybe the trombones need something special).

Literally, Arban's for everyone.

[Dean E]

. . . . 3) The convention for playing Eb brass band tuba parts written in transposed treble clef for those who only read concert pitch bass clef is to write a bass clef sign over the treble clef sign and add three [edit - strike sharps] flats to the key signature. This works for any tuba, since tuba players read bass clef concert pitch in the USA, regardless of the pitch of the instrument.
4) Euph, trombone & BBb bass are more tricky. It's better just to learn to read treble clef with a fingering or position chart at hand. . . .

Am I getting this? Is this an accurate summary?

Sheet music for brass band (which I believe is also known as world music) comes with separately printed parts for differently keyed tubas. In other words, brass band musicians use the same fingerings for any key tuba, provided that their printed parts have been transposed for Eb, BBb, or these days maybe even F, CC, or GG. Traditionally, brass band has only Eb and BBb tubas, and parts for tubas in other keys may not be available from publishers.

Non-brass band tubists (whose instruments may be in any key) playing brass band music need to start with an Eb tuba part, which is converted to a bass clef tuba part by adding three flats to the key signature.

[Dan Schultz]

Sheet music for brass band (which I believe is also known as world music) comes with separately printed parts for differently keyed tubas.

Mentions of 'World parts' in the concert band music I've seen lately is the addition of parts written in treble clef that are normally associated with bass clef instruments... such as tubas and trombones. I've not seen different parts for Eb and BBb tubas... just the general term 'basses'.... meaning BBb tubas. I've not seen seperate Eb and BBb tuba parts in music published in the US. Most band directors here in the US don't even know that tubas are made in different keys.

[MaryAnn]

If you happen to also play F tuba and a CC tuba, it's also easy to play the BBb tuba parts in treble. Just read the BBb treble part as if it's in bass cleff using your F fingerings and add three flats. This may be trickly because you'll be playing 1/4 off of the expected pitch but you get used to this pretty quickly.

Ow, now I have a headache. 1/4 off? Yikes. Brass band music in quarter tones! "Trickly" is right. (just teasing...)

Really, I think reading by pitch is easier in the long run than all these fingering manipulations. But I have noticed that few agree with me. For the Bb treble clef part on a CC tuba, or an F tuba... read tenor clef and add two flats, same as for a euph treble clef part. The fingerings go with the pitches, not the other way around.

MA

[iiipopes]

I don't think he meant 1/4, but a musical interval of a 4th.

Tuba Tinker is right: I recently went over to my undergrad to borrow an Eb tuba and the new band director, upon hearing my question, replied, "Eb what?"

Dean E - Yes, it is an accurate summary, although I have never heard the music referred to as "world parts." For example, a middle C on an brass band transposed treble clef Eb tuba part, after changing the clef and adding three flats, is a concert pitch Eb. Since it is a concert pitch Eb, most American tuba players, regardless of which tuba or what style of music they play as primary, are going to be able to play it, because the convention in America, whether band or orchestra, is to write just one tuba part in bass clef concert pitch, and sort it out from there. So the BBb player will use 1st valve, CC will use 23 or some alternate, Eb will use open and F will use 1st valve, as they would do anyway on any normal bass clef part.

[Chuck(G)]

I've been given a mixture of BB flat bass and Eb bass parts (mostly in treble) and will probably opt for the "add flat method" for practice sake, but would it be the same to read the music as a treble baritone or euphonium? Just curious...(Note: I play a BBflat bass)

Yes, for the Bb parts (the fingering stays the same regardless of the instrument). The Eb parts are written for Eb instruments (e.g. tenorhorn, Eb tuba, Eb sop cornet) and you'll have to read those with the "add 3 flats and read in bass clef" method.

[Allen]

Just to add to the overall confusion, I'll mention another transposition. I was given to play a concert band part labeled "Bb tuba" which was written using bass clef, but the notes were a ninth above the pitches to be sounded! I was told that this is standard in some parts of Europe.

[Chuck(G)]

Just to add to the overall confusion, I'll mention another transposition. I was given to play a concert band part labeled "Bb tuba" which was written using bass clef, but the notes were a ninth above the pitches to be sounded! I was told that this is standard in some parts of Europe.

These seem to show up routinely in the set of parts for Low Countries publishers such as De Haske. Of course,the librarian sees "Bb Tuba" on the part and promptly puts it on your stand, right? It's only when you notice that the key signature on your part is different from the bass trombone that you understand that you're really in trouble...