RANT: Fingering charts, etc.

[Naptown Tuba]

Way to Go, Doc!!!! AMEN!!!!!

[pulseczar]

Well, if you can't use fingering charts, it means you have to practice. GASP. Who the hell ever wants to practice!?!?!

[tubeast]

One thing to add:
I think all it takes to figure out fingerings is a general idea of what a valve does to a horn when pressed, and some hints as to what might happen if several valves are combined.

I enjoy the privilege of having a tuba student. The kid (aged 12 when starting to honk) was pre-trained musically, singing and playing the accordion, so yeah, that faciliated things.
I got him started by teaching him how to toot and suggesting what each single valve did to the horn. Then I showed him where in the bass clef the partials were. His first assignment was to fill in the gaps and write down all possible combinations to come up with a certain amount of half steps.
Next lesson we tried out which one sounded best, and that was it.

Next thing I heard was him taking the horn out of the bag and playing "Oh when the Saints" almost correctly as "warm-up"

[windshieldbug]

Music is still an AURAL activity, isn't it?

Yes, but a note's aura can change from week to week, even day to day!

[NickJones]

Until I sell off another kidney or trade in my liver for hard cash I dont think I am going to invest a few grand on an all singing all dancing 5 valve tubamaphone , I will stick with my tried and trusted Eb and Bb sov tubas , might spend a few quid getting overhauls and trying different things out with a local repair bloke, without having to spend the money you could buy a small tank with to buy a new 4 ,5,6 valve monster!!!!! .
I agree with doc's comments..getting a new instrument is just trial and error , work the instrument out , dont expect it to sound brilliant if you are unsure of it , a bit of hard work didnt hurt anyone!!!! , only babies and senile old farts need spoonfeeding, do some work ya lazy slackers...thats a joke by the way!!!!!

[iiipopes]

And what really drives this rant home is the availability right here on this forum with one click to the tips page for all four standardized accepted charts.

[Mark]

I have a corollary rant!

I am amazed at the number of times our orchestra will rent or borrow music and the tuba part will have fingerings written in it. Usually, standard CC fingerings. These are normally not works that high school orchestras should be playing; so I'm baffled as to who would be writing these fingerings on the sheet music.

[Chuck(G)]

I have a corollary rant!

I am amazed at the number of times our orchestra will rent or borrow music and the tuba part will have fingerings written in it. Usually, standard CC fingerings. These are normally not works that high school orchestras should be playing; so I'm baffled as to who would be writing these fingerings on the sheet music.

Mark, I've seen some very seasoned professionals write fingerings in parts, but usually that's because they've worked out alternates for something like a trill...

I suppose about half the material under the main Tubenet category has been beaten to death with discussions before and most of the remainder is just silly.

I ranted not too long ago about why was it so difficult for some folks to figure out how to finger a tuba of any key. I still don't understand why some don't get it--it's part of the basic "principles of operation" of any brass aerophone.

[Mark]

Mark, I've seen some very seasoned professionals write fingerings in parts, but usually that's because they've worked out alternates for something like a trill...

I would understand that, but these are just standard fingerings for cash register notes.

Now, next topic, other than Meistersinger, what orchestral tuba parts have trills?

[iiipopes]

OK, I confess: with my occasional fits of aphasia, I do write in fingerings on parts occasionally. As a counter-rant, I'd rather see that than listen to the part performed badly.

[XtremeEuph]

I love that mouse. He is such a helpful little guy! And now this whole thread will probably get pulled . . . but I hope not!

Holy crap that was hilarious

[Chuck(G)]

I was fortunate enough to inherit several charts used by a brass quintet made up of very seasoned veterans. These by and large are just your standard Robert King ports, but they're FILLED with scribbling. Some of these were used at recording sessions.

And it's very useful--because most of the scribbling relates to style and interpretation and reflects a level of playing that's light-years away from yours truly.

When I see a part that's been written on, I try to understand why the previous player thought it was important enough to commit to paper.

Give me "used" parts any day!

[windshieldbug]

Almost all of the markings by yours truely regard the conductor... and usually are not very complemetary!
(Violas don't rate marks- only shrugs)

[iiipopes]

Hey elephant -- thanks for your rant. Some rental agencies are very particular about getting their copies back clean, and I have actually had to erase markings before turning them in so the ensemble would not be "charged" a "maintenance fee" for returning them with marks. I wish they would get a clue as to how helpful real markings are to the rest of us. I was trying to be subtle in my prior post on this line, but now that you have opened the door, here is my position on marking music: as long as it is in fresh #2 pencil, lightly but legibly written so it doesn't interfere with the printed part or score, and so it can be changed as necessary with a small eraser, I agree with you: MARK THE @#$% MUSIC SO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE CONDUCTOR WANTS AND SO YOU DON'T MAKE STUPID MISTAKES IN PERFORMANCE!

[CJ Krause]

my

[iiipopes]

The run through it so I can hear it is probably with us to stay, due to everyone, including me, having started learning rock n roll off the radio, with no such thing as tabs or reliable transcripts, and the desire to sound, "Just like the Record." Even my church band director sends out CDs with the music so we can help the vocalists by doing just that.

The only solution is to emphasize the basic foundation of sight singing & ear training, or is that sight screaming and ear straining, so that we are teaching the students to play music and not just notes.

Of course, I am lucky. I had a great piano teacher; I started when I was eight, and by the time I was old enough to be in school band I already knew all my basic theory as to clefs, key and time signatures and major and minor scales, not that I could play them, but I knew what they were and how to listen for the intervals: minor second, as close as you can hum, major second, do-re, etc., again, not perfectly, but at least I had a clue about where to go and what something on the page might sound like.

I must digress: When the movie the Sound of Music came out, I was very young, and absolutely enthralled. I took my little toy piano and tried to play the Do Re Mi song. But I vividly remember the frustration that for some reason I could not get my little eight note toy to sound like the song on the movie, with, of course as I found out years later, was because of the secondary modulations V/V and V/vi. Fortunately, my folks recognized this for what it was and got me going on lessons.

When someone asks me what does this sound like, I don't answer either. I start asking them the review questions: what key is it in, what time is it in, what are the notes of the scale of the key, what is the starting note, if not the tonic, what is the relation to the tonic, where do you go for the next note, are there any rhythms to watch for, etc., to make them think about the music.

[Chuck(G)]

The only solution is to emphasize the basic foundation of sight singing & ear training, or is that sight screaming and ear straining, so that we are teaching the students to play music and not just notes.

Thank you!

It used to be that a course of solfege was part of a musical education--and I think this is one of the small distinctions between the old timers like Bell, Jacobs, etc. and today's young players.

There's nothing quite like hearing a quintet or other ensemble putting their instruments down and singing their parts in perfect harmony. The playing always goes much more smoothly thereafter.