Tuba closeout at Brook Mays (Dallas)

patentnonsense · Post by **patentnonsense** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:50 pm

They are out of business (killed by lawyers), and their liquidators are selling off the last bits of inventory. That includes:
MW 25 (I tried it and didn't like it, but YMMV)
MW 2125 (looks like a CC version of the 25, but I don't see this model number on the MW website).

Already sold were a Miraphone 6V Firebird for just over $4000, and a VMI 2103 for $24xx, to give you some idea of pricing.

They also have some Meltons and many 3/4 horns.

John Caves · Post by **John Caves** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:13 pm

An H & H store in Pasadena, TX had, what I believe was a MW 25. priced at $3119.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:00 pm

patentnonsense wrote:They are out of business (killed by lawyers), and their liquidators are selling off the last bits of inventory

Sounds like they should have a fire-sale on THEIR lawyers....

dunelandmusic · Post by **dunelandmusic** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:30 pm

Not sure if "killed by lawyers" is accurate. Having been in the music business, and having been a vendor for B-M, killed by business practices may be a more accurate statement. There are probably many facets to this situation unknown to the public, but my perception is that B-M lived and died by price alone, and there's more than price that keeps a business healthy.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:28 pm

What dunelandmusic said!

A most successful small town music store that I grew up with serviced all the area schools. The owner died. The first person to buy the business did alright with it, but got tired of the requirements of running the business. So that person sold it to someone who obviously did not know anything about the service aspects required of a music store, especially one that sells band instruments. He couldn't keep it going. The carcass sold to a larger regional music store that is opening up or purchasing such small stores, and is actually doing a fine job of maintaining both reasonable prices and good service. I have been a patron of this store for over 30 years. Fortunately, I was the one who saw what was going on and tipped off the owner of the regional store who was able to purchase it before another regional store who I am not on as good a terms with (read: haven't spent enough money in the store and I don't play their particular brand of instruments) could.

It sounds to me like the same thing happened to Brook Mays: all sales and no service.

Ace · Post by **Ace** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:34 pm

I hope this post is not inappropriate, but where did B-M come up with this price? (Sean,please delete if I shouldn't have posted this.)

http://www.brookmays.com/prod_disp.aspx?itemnum=1885VC

The gold brass version of this instrument is presently around $7390 at a major seller on the east coast.

GC · Post by GC » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:25 pm

I think that there are a bunch of problems with their Web site now. For example, this is listed as a "Bavarian rotary tuba" in BBb, but it looks like a piston-valve Eb or F tuba to me:

http://www.brookmays.com/prod_disp.aspx ... m=MW2125GB

Edit: After a closer look at the MW Web site, it's their picture of the Eb 2141 rotated 90 degrees.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:05 pm

Ace wrote:I hope this post is not inappropriate, but where did B-M come up with this price? (Sean,please delete if I shouldn't have posted this.)

http://www.brookmays.com/prod_disp.aspx?itemnum=1885VC

The gold brass version of this instrument is presently around $7390 at a major seller on the east coast.

And $6695 at WWBW. "List" price at WWBW is $8995 while the list price at B-M is $12600. I suspect they pump up the list prices so the sale prices look reasonable.

Ace · Post by **Ace** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:19 pm

Quint,

I believe the Miraphone 188-5 CC at WWBW is probably not the expensive gold brass model.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:33 pm

The 188 at B-M is the cheaper lacquer model...

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:49 pm

dunelandmusic wrote:Not sure if "killed by lawyers" is accurate. Having been in the music business, and having been a vendor for B-M, killed by business practices may be a more accurate statement. There are probably many facets to this situation unknown to the public, but my perception is that B-M lived and died by price alone, and there's more than price that keeps a business healthy.

I think the straw that broke their back was the law suit filed against them by First Act Instruments. Evidently they did some negative advertising about First Act instruments and First Act sued them for libel. It cost them many millions and I suspect that is what put them under. Our local store in PA was a part of BM and has since been purchased by Rayburn Music out of Boston and NY. Hopefully things will run a bit smoother now.

ken k

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:27 am

TubeNet's Charlie Krause was employed at B-M for a period of time after he left WWBW. He probably has some stories to tell about that stint...

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:06 am

I thought the lawsuit was the first nail in the coffin, too but the lawsuit was paid by an insurance company, except for a seperate suit against one of the principals.

Charlie's not going to spill dirt on the net. He doesn't want to invite the same lawsuit B-M got.

What ended B-M was the classic expanded-too-quickly syndrome. They apparently had all kinds of problems with the bottom line, there was no control over costs, expenses and shrinkage.

There are many "F. Schmidt" stenciled tubas in the warehouse that nobody has picked through. I'm told that these are mostly VMI products and not bad BBb tubas.

The price you see for any tuba in the B-M store or website is what they hope to get some sucker to pay. Make an offer and you might get it.

dunelandmusic · Post by **dunelandmusic** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:43 am

Interesting info on the First Act lawsuit. Had to be pretty bad talk to bring a lawsuit. Again, in business, I've always been taught you'll win customers not by denigrating anyone or anything, but always by telling people why you and your product are better and what you have to offer. While some of the first instruments labeled "First Act" may have been like any of the other first Chinese instruments, the First Act guitars I see students coming in with now are actually decent. For a beginner coming from a non musical family, they are an okay choice for getting started. Don't know about their brass instruments.

I think the followup post about their expansion was probably accurate, a familiar story, expansion at any cost usually results in too large of a debt to service, and too large of a territory to service, and the bottom line suffers.

Personally, I find the musical instrument business a funny business, so many people through the last 40 years have tried to corner the market in a particular area, or even nationally, and it seems to be a business that defies peoples expectations to corner it. We've all seen companies come and go which have tried to get a handle on the market. Back in the 60's-70's CBS had illusions to corner the manufacturing instruments business, and they quickly abandoned it after realizing the costs. (They also owned the Yankees in this period, I believe)

Locally, in the Chicago area, we have one company that gets the the lion's share of school business, and thus rentals and sales, Q&F. They do it with representatives who constantly call on accounts, who are available, with a repair shop and protection plan to follow up on sales. Most parents and teachers can get what they want with a simple phone call. They are not a gigantic operation, and if you saw their facilities, you might wonder how they get it all done. But they do get it done, and when school starts in the fall, for the next 8 weeks their reps work the 80 hour weeks to make sure it gets done.

Michael Woods · Post by **Michael Woods** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:07 pm

If the tubas are labeled "Schmidt" they are actually B&S just relabeled, same thing with the trumpets.

patentnonsense · Post by **patentnonsense** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:26 pm

What The Brook Mays flyer said about First Act was just what many musicians have said about cheap imported instruments. Is First Act different from other cheap imported instruments? Has anyone here been favorably impressed by the quality of the original First Act instruments?

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:44 pm

What you think and express verbally one-on-one sometimes needs to differ from what you put in writing.Especially if you have something to lose financially.If you're totally broke,it doesn't matter much.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:44 pm

And of course, it's not always what you say, but how you say it. Would you rather hear, "When I'm with you, time seems to stand still," or "Man, your face could stop a clock!"

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:00 am

patentnonsense wrote:What The Brook Mays flyer said about First Act was just what many musicians have said about cheap imported instruments. Is First Act different from other cheap imported instruments? Has anyone here been favorably impressed by the quality of the original First Act instruments?

It goes beyond that. They said that they had evaluated them and found them to be unworthy. When pressed during the litigation, they could not produce evidence of ever having had one in their shop, let alone evaluating it against any acceptable standard. So, their statement was slanderous because they had not done what they said they did, not because it was untrue. All it took in litigation was for First Act to produce an expert--and the standard for experts is pretty low--to proclaim their value. Nobody ever said they were good or bad, but rather that they were or were not worth what they cost.

So, apparently B-M got caught in a fib. That's where the slander comes in. They should have known better, but they didn't.

As to the insurance coverage--yes, an insurance company might have paid that suit. But they might also have sued their customer, jacked up their rates to intolerable levels, or both. That doesn't mean B-M was or was not already in trouble--that I don't know. But I do know B-M, and that leaves me with my opinions.

Rick "whose Dallas office used to overlook the LBJ store" Denney

chipster55 · Post by **chipster55** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:50 am

My .02 -

B-M's customer service has been circling the bowl the last couple of years. However, yesterday, my wife & I were in the LBJ store to find a gig bag for her trumpet, they didn't have one there, and the guy at the counter called other stores until he found one - which we got in Mesquite. It was the first time I had gotten that kind of service in any location except at the pro shop. When they had their tuba "Pro Shop", they priced themselves almost out of business.