Frullato in the basement register

[finnbogi]

I have just received the tuba part for Regions by the Finnish composer Antti Auvinen. There are quite a few frullato notes there, which normally wouldn't pose a problem. Some of these notes are, however, in the low E to C range (i.e. 5-6 lines below the staff) and the ff-fff dynamic range, and in these cases my flutter tongue starts to interfere with my embouchure, and I get multiphonics.
Does anyone here know a good trick to play these low frullati?

Thanks in advance,
Finnbogi

[TonyZ]

Just a thought...perhaps the added multi-phonics are what the composer intended. With the loud dynamic, low notes, and flutter, that would be a hellish noise. Just what the composer ordered maybe.

[jsswadley]

Hello Finnbogi! For a while my orchestra was playing quite a bit of second Viennese School music and this kind of thing comes up quite often. I suspect that the toungue vibrations are so close to the actual frequencies of the notes that they generate a difference tone. Try putting your toungue between your teeth at a fairly quick speed and see if it doesn t generate a sound that is pretty close to a flutter toungue at the very bottom of the tuba. John

[TonyZ]

Or try gargling. That can be an acceptable substitute for those that cannot flutter. Give it a whirl!

[iiipopes]

Just be careful, if resorting to gargling instead of true flutter tonguing, of keeping your throat clear and don't do it right after eating or having sinus problems, unless you want to spend an inordinate amount of time cleaning out your leadpipe, and possibly first valve slide as well!

[Allen]

I'm amazed at how respectful the posts are in this thread. I would have been rather tempted to say to the music director, "Excuse me, I have only musical training. You seem to be in need of someone who has strange sound training instead."

I must admit that, on one occasion, I had great fun playing under John Cage's direction in a pit orchestra for a very advant garde ballet. It was an indescribable experience (although that doesn't usually stop me from trying).

Cheers,
Allen

[TonyZ]

Just be careful, if resorting to gargling instead of true flutter tonguing, of keeping your throat clear and don't do it right after eating or having sinus problems, unless you want to spend an inordinate amount of time cleaning out your leadpipe, and possibly first valve slide as well!

...ewwwwwwwww...

[Tom Holtz]

I'm sitting here trying to flutter-tongue low E's and D's. I sound more like a lawn mower than usual. There isn't any flutter-tongue characteristic to the sound, just a really squirrely low note. Good luck with that.

When I saw the title of the thread, I thought a frulatto was some kind of frozen coffee dessert you get at Baskin-Robbins or something.

[finnbogi]

Try putting your toungue between your teeth at a fairly quick speed and see if it doesn t generate a sound that is pretty close to a flutter toungue at the very bottom of the tuba.

There was a rehearsal for this piece last Saturday and I tried this tongue stunt. I think it might work if I can work up enough speed before the concert, which is next Saturday. In any case, it sounds better than my attempts to proper frullato down there. Thanks!

When I saw the title of the thread, I thought a frulatto was some kind of frozen coffee dessert you get at Baskin-Robbins or something.

That is quite possible.

[finnbogi]

Update: The concert was today and although it didn't go quite as well as the rehearsal last night, I managed faking the low frullati with John's trick and they sounded ... well, like a lawn mover.
Anyway, the conductor was satisfied and I suppose one can't ask for more than that...

Thanks again for the advice!

[Tom Holtz]

Sound like a mower, the conductor is happy. Now that's classical music.