Quintet horn?

[ken k]

Let's pick three of the better known brass quintets: the Empire Brass, the American Brass Quintet and the Canadian Brass. I don't see an F tuba in the bunch.

In Empire, Ken Amis uses an Eb Besson (at least he did when I saw them about 6 years ago), American Brass uses a bass bone (don't know who is playing with them now) and Chuck uses a small CC in the CB. The last I heard he went back to a small Yamaha CC (621?) I could be wrong though.

So while there is no F tuba there, there is certainly no consistent choice.

I think a player has to come up with his/her own voice and use what he/she feels best fits the need. The other members of the group may give opinions too, (and it can also depend on their choice of equipment) but certainly, I would think an F tuba would work fine. It would be better on some pieces than others, which is the case with any instrument. Compromises must be made no matter what horn you play, unless you use more than one horn on a gig which usually is not very practical for a tuba player. I will take a bass bone along on a gig where it really matters, but most outside stuff, (summer concert type stuff) I just use my Eb.

ken k

[Steve Inman]

Any possible complaint of it not providing enough bottom, is just rediculous. Since the tuba provides the lowest notes in the quintet harmonies, those notes will always be heard, just as the higest notes in a chord will always be heard. It is the middle voices that tend to get lost in the harmonic texture.

Z.T.D. -- Complaining about a YFB-621 is not at all rediculous [sic] -- unless you just like to ridicule others for their opinions ...

I used to play a YFB-621 in my quintet. None of the other players liked it. COMPARED WITH my previous horn (983) and compared with horns I have sinced used (Mira 186 CC, Conn 56J and now YEB-381 Eb) the 621F is WEENIE in comparison (fact, not opinion). However, it is a matter of opinion as to whether or not a 621F provided "enough" bottom end. In the opinion of my quintet, it does not -- at least not when I'm playing it.

I was amazed to see how much fuller a sound the YEB-381 provided than the 621F, even though the bell is only an inch or so larger. This 4/4 Eb plays much bigger. Yet even so, when I recently switched back to the 56J while having a little repair work done on the Eb, the quintet opinion was "8 thumbs up" for the bigger sound of the CC. COMPARED WITH a YFB-621 (and even a YEB-381) the CC simply provides much more bottom end. So, the opposite also holds -- compared with the CC horns I've recently been using, the YFB-621 does not provide enough bottom end, for my quintet.

But I'm with Rick -- the bass tuba makes my job much easier for most of the quintet literature, and I prefer the tighter, brighter sound of the bass tuba myself. Back to Z.T.D.'s comment, however, when playing the 621F a while back, I chose it as I was also covering the bass voice in a QUARTET -- typically a 2nd 'bone part, or a euph part. I tried to cover this part without dropping the octave, whenever possible, and the 621F was the best horn I could find that blended well with the quartet. But even then, I had my own misgivings about using it in a quintet, as did the other 4 players with that group.

Ridicule away if you will ....

Cheers,

[Chuck(G)]

I've found that sound as heard within the quintet can be misleading. I think the best approach is to either have an unbiased listener or to record the group and listen.

One of the problems with a closely situated group like a quintet is that the tuba bell points upwards and the players down below it don't get a really good idea of the sound.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Any possible complaint of it not providing enough bottom, is just rediculous. Since the tuba provides the lowest notes in the quintet harmonies, those notes will always be heard, just as the higest notes in a chord will always be heard. It is the middle voices that tend to get lost in the harmonic texture.

Z.T.D. -- Complaining about a YFB-621 is not at all rediculous [sic] -- unless you just like to ridicule others for their opinions ...

I used to play a YFB-621 in my quintet. None of the other players liked it. COMPARED WITH my previous horn (983) and compared with horns I have sinced used (Mira 186 CC, Conn 56J and now YEB-381 Eb) the 621F is WEENIE in comparison (fact, not opinion). However, it is a matter of opinion as to whether or not a 621F provided "enough" bottom end. In the opinion of my quintet, it does not --

Certainly, the amount of "bass" needed in a quintet, is a matter of personal opinion. My statement about the rIdiculousness (thanks for keeping me honest, Steve...) of complaints about the YXB-621, is that Chuck Dahlenbach used that kind of horn, with a fair degree of success, with the Canadian Brass, which would indicate that it is possible that the horn can be sufficient.

I have never played a YFB-621, only a YCB-621, but I have spent many years playing on that horn. I have to believe that the F horn produces a very similar presence, to the C, since the size of the bells are indentical (can anyone comment, who has played BOTH?). Whether a YXB-621 provides enough bass for a quintet just depends on how much bass the listener wants to hear.

[Steve Inman]

Yup -- just depends on how much bass the listener wants to hear. So when you switch from the YFB-621 to the Thor, it's like turning the bass knob on your stereo from "something lower" to "11" ....

Cheers,