The Importance of Periodic Cleaning

threedognate · Post by **threedognate** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:12 am

I bought this 1925 3-valve Conn Monster E-flat a few of months ago - can't afford the $6000 for a new horn right now, but I wanted something for my students (and myself) to get acquainted with E-flat - got it for a VERY good price. I had read in a number of threads here that many of the monster e-flats had a large (but difficult-to-tune) sound. Got it from a woman who was selling it for her 85-year-old father - he had played on it for many years but had recently developed Parkinson's disease. The photo below shows the horn next to my PT-606 - the Conn is a big horn! I spent about an hour with some good silver polish to get it looking this way.

I was immediately disappointed with the muffled and out-of-tune sound it produced, but thought it might be a problem with leaky, out-of-alignment valves - or something else that I could easily repair myself. I put the horn in a corner and vowed to spend some time with it when time became available (easier said than done!). I even got to the point that I listed it for sale on this site a few weeks ago, confident that this was not the horn for me, and I didn't want a "project" horn.

Fast-forward to yesterday. Was working on some Mozart E-flat Horn Concerto on the 606. Realized that it might be much friendlier on an E-flat horn! Got the Conn out and started to work on the valves. After chatting with some of my students, we determined that the muffled sound might have been caused by something stuck in the horn - similar to the sound you might get if you leave music or a rag in the bell. Ran a snake through the bell and it stopped on something around the second large turn - the top bow. Tried to snake form the other end, but didn't have enough length (insert your own "not enough snake" joke here). Decided to take the horn to the car wash to try to blow the unidentified object out. After four minutes of jet-blasting the horn, the item shown below clanked out.

As if I didn't look goofy enough standing in a car wash stall with a tuba, I'm sure that repeatedly pumping my fist in the air with the can held high, flexing, and screaming "Yeahhh!!!" put the situation over the top for passers-by. This whole process had taken nearly 4 hours! I felt victorious over that can! Really, the whole car wash episode is a whole-nuther story.

A "Duet" can - does anyone remember those? This sucker has to be more than 20-25 years old. Has the old-style throw-away poptop. An old Gilbey's vodka cocktail - a screwdiver. I don't think they make these anymore. I know they haven't made that style of poptop for probably more than 20 years.

Now the question is: How many years was this can in the horn? Did the gentleman who played the horn not realize that at some point the tone and intonation got DRAMATICALLY worse?

Guess I now know why I got the horn so cheap.

The horn sounds fantastic now - just got out of a rehearsal with our faculty quintet, and they LOVE it.

Just thought you all might appreciate the story.

Nate Rinnert
Mansfield University

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:08 am

Thanks, Nate, that was a fine story. I really enjoyed it.
How is the intonation now? Does the old Conn have good false tones?
You got her looking good-now go rattle the rafters with her.
My old school sousie got to smelling bad so we put a hose down her and a dead bat fell out.

threedognate · Post by **threedognate** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:39 am

The intonation now is actually pretty good. 5th partial F's and E's are far out, but easily fixed with some alternate fingerings. The tone quality of the low B-flat is very stuffy - feels like the horn is blowing back at you - but the rest of the horn blows great. False tones are ok. I like the quick responsiveness and clarity/center this horn produces.

I'll definitely be using the horn!

I guess I should feel lucky that ONLY a can fell out of this thing and not a foot, or something worse.

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:33 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Damn! I sorta wanted to buy this horn! I was actually planning on PM-ing you today about it!

It do look real good too....

I bet the price has more than doubled now

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:20 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Damn! I sorta wanted to buy this horn! I was actually planning on PM-ing you today about it!

It do look real good too....

I would expect that the Duet can could be had quite reasonably!...

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:24 pm

Bob1062 wrote:
windshieldbug wrote:I would expect that the can could be gotten quite reasonably!...

Ebay?

i bet if you take the dents out of it first you will get more money for it.......

be careful not to over-restore it however. you do not want it to lose its patina......

threedognate · Post by **threedognate** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:02 pm

I plan on mounting the Duet can on a cheap trophy base. I feel as though I should win some kind of prize for figuring out the riddle of this instrument.

Nate the Canqueror!

threedognate · Post by **threedognate** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:23 pm

By the way - after reading Bob1062's other posts, I need to say that I think it would be hard to make this an "only horn." The sound is great for certain applications. But the restrictions in range would keep me from using this in too many settings. I plan on using it for SOME solo things and SOME quintet things, maybe a polka band gig or two, would sound great in a brass band. From what others have said, adding a 4th valve wouldn't help enough to justify the high cost - I'd just have a Monster E-flat with a 4th valve.

I would like to look into doing something with the main tuning slide - making it more accessible when playing. Some have suggested flipping it to an "up" position (sort of like the Marzan CC's) - not sure what the cost would be, or who might be available (or reliable) to do it. I guess it might also be possible to install some kind of left-hand trigger action for the current main tuning slide? I think this would make intonation on the horn a breeze. Of course, I really learned to play tuba on an old Alexander CC (I still have - my favorite horn!), so I'm used to constantly pulling slides.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:16 pm

What a horn to perform Canzona per Sonore

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:18 pm

[quote="threedognate"] The tone quality of the low B-flat is very stuffy - feels like the horn is blowing back at you "

Any bullet holes in it?

WilliamVance · Post by **WilliamVance** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:19 pm

I had similar problem with a Conn 20K last year. I too shined the horn for hours, bathed it, put it back together and thought what a stuffy horn. I then used a plummers snake and found a clog in the third large branch. I messed with it for almost a week, then I took it to a local repair shop and when I went to pick up the sousa, they had a pristine glass "Patio" cola bottle on the floor beside it. Patio cola was what they called Diet Pepsi when it frist came on the market. The name changed to Diet Pepsi in 1964... That is why I suspect the 60 year old horn to have been in great shape. I sold the horn, but will have the bottle forever!

bttmbow · Post by **bttmbow** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:08 pm

When I first saw the can I thought that was what you were having to drink while going through the work to clean it up!

Nice looking horn.
Congrats!

CJH

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:28 pm

WilliamVance wrote:I had similar problem with a Conn 20K last year. I too shined the horn for hours, bathed it, put it back together and thought what a stuffy horn. I then used a plummers snake and found a clog in the third large branch. I messed with it for almost a week, then I took it to a local repair shop and when I went to pick up the sousa, they had a pristine glass "Patio" cola bottle on the floor beside it. Patio cola was what they called Diet Pepsi when it frist came on the market. The name changed to Diet Pepsi in 1964... That is why I suspect the 60 year old horn to have been in great shape. I sold the horn, but will have the bottle forever!

Well, learn something new everyday! I knew about Tab, Fresca and Diet Rite, but I had never known about Patio Cola!

Hey, WilliamVance -- here's an article with more about Patio Cola: http://www.whisperbrand.com/blog/2006/06/

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:48 pm

threedognate wrote:The Importance of Periodic Cleaning

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:42 pm

Why is it so tempting to shove babies and mid-size animals down tuba bells and then take pictures?
I'm one of the worst. I just love it and plan to continue.

threedognate · Post by **threedognate** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:09 pm

Are there any intonation issues to consider when using a baby as a sousaphone mute?

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:12 pm

threedognate wrote:Are there any intonation issues to consider when using a baby as a sousaphone mute?

No, but depending on the length of use, there may be aroma issues...

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:16 am

Better that than a frogeye Sprite...