Upright flugelhorn!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:56 pm

Now THAT'S a horn for TubaChristmasâ„¢!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:49 pm

Hey, for $2200, they ought to make it in just about any shape a person pleases!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:03 pm

Hey! I've got one of those critters!

Mine's in Bb.... like a tenorhorn.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:17 am

TubaTinker wrote:Hey! I've got one of those critters!
Mine's in Bb.... like a tenorhorn.

Unless I'm mistaken, this'un's an octave above!

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:36 am

windshieldbug wrote:
TubaTinker wrote:Hey! I've got one of those critters!
Mine's in Bb.... like a tenorhorn.
Unless I'm mistaken, this'un's an octave above!

Exactly right -- a nice-looking soprano tuba.

corbasse · Post by **corbasse** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:36 am

To get a good idea of actual size:

(From the manufacturers site)

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:52 am

TubaTinker,

tell you what: Yours IS a Tenorhorn.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:55 am

tubeast wrote:TubaTinker,

tell you what: Yours IS a Tenorhorn.

Naw... the udderun jus got warshed in wi' th white clothes!

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:38 pm

...yeah, and not exactly using a mild detergent, either !!

BTW, You happen to know age and manufacturer of that horn ? Does it play well ? Are you using it for anything other than posting its pic ?

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:39 pm

a few years back at the NY brass conference they had presented a gag upright flugel for someone (I can't remember who was being honored that year), which was made form an actual flugel and had the valves turned perpendicular so that it looked like a little tuba. it was cute.....
ken k

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:42 pm

ken k wrote:so that it looked like a little tuba

That's the way ALL horns are supposed to be!

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:09 pm

Yamaha made Fred Mills an upright flugelhorn with 3 top valves. They possibly also made the so-called soprano tuba used by the Tokyo Tuba Ensemble. I have seen a photo of the latter, not of the former.

Fred Mills has been reported to take part in the Atlanta Tuba Christmas with exactly that instrument.

The topic of upright flugelhorns/soprano tubas has been up on this board before.

The Yamaha and the JestÃ¤dt causing this thread both are designed from scratch (maybe except for the valve block). That is a very costly solution.

Joe S. and I once discussed, on this board or its older version, if it is possible to convert a standard flugelhorn to a soprano tuba. Joe can do just about anything he wants conversionwise. But this project has an obstacle: the tuning leadpipe of almost all current flugelhorn models.

DEG made a flugelhorn, where the first bow acted as the tuning slide. Several German makers made the short Kuhlo flugelhorns with a tuning slide sloop in the body. That version may still be made, but I am not positive on that matter.

A tuning leadpipe cannot be applied to an upright flugelhorn without giving it very odd proportions.

Sad that these funny little things are so costly compared to their musical value. They could contribute with a lot of fun to showy entertainment programmes.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:45 pm

Actually, Klaus, I see no need for the tuning portion of the mouthpipe to be SO long... that is only traditional, and it is not like one has to make a High Pitch/Low Pitch change any longer, nor to put the flugelhorn in 'A".

I would think it should be entirely possible, even with the tuning up front!

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:56 pm

The JestÃ¤dt soprano Tenorhorn is in current production. The workshop appears to have celebrated its 10th anniversary this year. From what I can deduce out of the homepage, the company is a high-end-low-volume maker. One of the 3 options for all models is gold plared gold brass.

I find the site easy to navigate, but then I have read German for around 55 years. The interesting pages with pictures are

Produkte

Info

They actually make Kuhlo flugelhorns with the tuning slide in the body.

http://www.jestaedt-instrumente.de/

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:26 pm

windshieldbug wrote:Actually, Klaus, I see no need for the tuning portion of the mouthpipe to be SO long... that is only traditional, and it is not like one has to make a High Pitch/Low Pitch change any longer, nor to put the flugelhorn in 'A".

I would think it should be entirely possible, even with the tuning up front!

The tuning leadpipe needs to be long.

First of all because it holds the very critical leadpipe taper, which is relatively longer on the flugelhorn than on the tuba, at least if we speak of the top piston variant like my beloved Besson 981. The piston flugelhorn is the most conical of all conical brasses.

All instruments with tuning slides only have to pull half the length needed for a given shift of pitch because two branches are affected. With a tuning leadpipe you have to pull the full length.

As an aside anecdote:

I once bought a very old Zelenka of Prague flugelhorn off a web auction. It has a huge bell volume. I knew it would come without the tuning leadpipe, but I supposed, that I could use the tuning leadpipe from my very good B&S rotary flugelhorn. I couldnâ€™t! It was of a far too big diameter. But this ole man has quite a few instruments. The solution was to use the A-pitch-leadpipe from my Selmer piccolo trumpet. Works beautifully.

I have a very soft spot for the old Bohemian and Moravian makers, even if I only own 4 or 5 of their instruments.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:53 pm

imperialbari wrote:The tuning leadpipe needs to be long.

First of all because it holds the very critical leadpipe taper, which is relatively longer on the flugelhorn than on the tuba, at least if we speak of the top piston variant like my beloved Besson 981. The piston flugelhorn is the most conical of all conical brasses.

My experience with 20th century flugelhorns is that they no longer have any taper in the mouthpipe tuning slide. My Couesnon and rotary valve horns merely have cylindrical tubing, which then starts the conical process once clear of the valves.

But these are modern flugelhorns. And the reason I collect historic instruments is because I like their sound, deep mouthpieces and all...

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:55 pm

imperialbari wrote:Yamaha made Fred Mills an upright flugelhorn with 3 top valves. They possibly also made the so-called soprano tuba used by the Tokyo Tuba Ensemble. I have seen a photo of the latter, not of the former.

Fred Mills has been reported to take part in the Atlanta Tuba Christmas with exactly that instrument.

Fred brought his to the 1st Athens TubaChristmas two years ago. After the initial "aww, that's cute" I personally didn't like the "trumpet" sound coming from a tuba ensemble, but folks in the audience seemed to enjoy it.

In any event, it made the event more memorable, and Fred's playing was very fine as usual!

Doug "is sad that there is only a 45% chance he'll be at the Athens TubaChristmas this year"

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:01 pm

Doug@GT wrote:
imperialbari wrote:Yamaha made Fred Mills an upright flugelhorn with 3 top valves. They possibly also made the so-called soprano tuba used by the Tokyo Tuba Ensemble. I have seen a photo of the latter, not of the former.

Fred Mills has been reported to take part in the Atlanta Tuba Christmas with exactly that instrument.

Fred brought his to the 1st Athens TubaChristmas two years ago. After the initial "aww, that's cute" I personally didn't like the "trumpet" sound coming from a tuba ensemble, but folks in the audience seemed to enjoy it.

In any event, it made the event more memorable, and Fred's playing was very fine as usual!

Sorry about flunking on Georgia geographics! Did not take part in the 1996 Olympics. If for no other reasons, then that I had a local rock festival to manage at that time. The Danish handball women went to the final, which was played during the two hours, where we should have carried home the profit through the sale of beer. We ended up in big red numbers, but our sponsors covered our asses and did not blame us.

Fred Mills is a musician I never will forget. I heard CB live in 1989. The distribution of the workload and the musical co-operation between Fred and Ron Romm was marvellous. Ron did all of the solo work on the Bb instruments. Fred did the piccolo work, and in between he played one of the most convincing low 2nd Bb trumpets, I ever have heard. Aside from the musical expressivity that re-established some circulation in his lips.

If Fredâ€™s sound stood out at the Tuba Christmas event, then I would not blame that on Fred playing â€œtrumpetyâ€

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:38 pm

imperialbari wrote:
Sorry about flunking on Georgia geographics!

No worries--Fred may have brought his horn to the Atlanta TC as well--just before my involvement with it.

If Fredâ€™s sound stood out at the Tuba Christmas event, then I would not blame that on Fred playing â€œtrumpetyâ€