"York" style YCB-826S availabe for try and buy.

[Matt Walters]

Hey gang,

A little plug for the store but a big chance for anyone in the New York City area to actually try and buy a YCB-826S. Here are the details.

Tuba Day at the Yamaha Artist Services Inc. office and an opportunity to try the YCB-826S.

Date:

Thursday, December 7th, 2006

Time:

10:00 AM to 5:00 PM

Place:

Yamaha Artist Services Inc.
689 5th Ave. (54th St. & 5th Ave. enter on 54th Street) 11th Floor New York, NY 10022
212-339-9995 x321

Dillon Music of Woodbridge, New Jersey will be the first U.S. dealer to offer this instrument for sale. Price is $29,995.00.

The YCB-826S is a 6/4 "York" style C tuba.

Each YCB-826S is completely handcrafted with total production of 3-4 units per year for the entire world. This event is a special opportunity for a player to purchase one of these very limited instruments. Because of the high demand and the limited production, additional instruments available for sale may be a couple years away. Each new instrument is allocated on a case by case basis to dealers and players across the country.

On hand throughout the day will be Seattle Symphony tuba Christopher Olka. Additionally, Yamaha renowned technicians Wayne Tanabe and Bob Malone will be available to discuss the YCB-826S development and detailed specifications. Chicago Symphony tuba Gene Pokorny is expected to arrive during the late afternoon and will be available to talk about the development process.

Two YCB-826S instruments will be available for testing during the day, and although one is pre-sold, the other will be available for sale at the event.

[Tom Holtz]

I guess the ol' tuba room is gonna be a bit crowded, huh? Should be an interesting day.

[ASTuba]

They could rent Carnegie Hall, and I bet that would be crowded.

I'm going to try to be there.

[Toobist]

I had the pleasure of trying one of these out for a good 2 hours some weeks back. I was amazed at the response and agility I was able to get out the big horn. Also! No 6/4 tuba has any business having such good intonation! I'm thinking of posting a more detailed review of the horn on here but I haven't the time just now. Stay tuned!

[MartyNeilan]

[quote="Tony E"]
Somebody help me out here. My powers of deduction are not as refined as Harold’s. ...

Is that the “case by case basisâ€

[glangfur]

Waiting list of people who want to buy = 3 years

I don't see that anywhere in Matt's post.

Each YCB-826S is completely handcrafted with total production of 3-4 units per year for the entire world. This event is a special opportunity for a player to purchase one of these very limited instruments. Because of the high demand and the limited production, additional instruments available for sale may be a couple years away. Each new instrument is allocated on a case by case basis to dealers and players across the country.

[sinfonian]

Sort of related...

Does anyone else miss the "Notes from Matt" on the old Dillon web site that use to pop up when you picked new Tubas. I use to look forward to those little gems.

[ASTuba]

Sounds like Yamaha is spending even more bread now to promote these "3-4 horns a year." I still wonder what gives...only because they've put a lot of effort into making sure people (like me) in the peanut gallery know about it. Just doesn't add up with the whole exclusivity hype. Not sure if it is teasing, or pandering.

I think they been dipping their toe in the water long enough, and should either sell the damn things or quit promoting them to us consumers (which is, after all, all the company's head brass think of "us" commoners)

Dale,

Yamaha does the same thing with their Custom series saxes, flutes, and trumpets. They don't make 1,000 of these per year, only about 10-12 per year.

I think the point of this is to show a collaborative effort between the Yamaha NYC showroom/custom shop, and their best professional brass dealer.

[Alex C]

I still wonder what gives...only because they've put a lot of effort into making sure people (like me) in the peanut gallery know about it. Just doesn't add up with the whole exclusivity hype. Not sure if it is teasing, or pandering.

All of the instrument manufacturers used to think that the "artist" level instruments give prestige to their student line instruments. I would bet that Yamaha's increased publicity of their 6/4 is for the same reason.

During the 20-30 years, many of the instrument manufacturers have been sold to new owners. One of the problems was convincing the new owners that the Conn 88-H, for instance, needed to be continued. After all, the new owners saw that they made hundreds of thousands of dollars on Conn Director trombones and relatively little on the 88-H, might as well drop it. You had to know the business to understand the logic. Yamaha may understand this logic.

With the arrival of instruments from Asia, the student line instruments made in America may be an endangered species. If the student instruments disappear, the artist instruments my become a very expensive specialty.

[ZNC Dandy]

Isn't the purchase of a musical instrument for a professional tax deductible? Also, I'm pretty sure that some major orchestras will pay a portion of the cost of your instrument? Or will reimburse you for said instrument. Also, isn't the the very nature of exclusivity cost prohibitive?

[Rick Denney]

Isn't the purchase of a musical instrument tax deductible? Also, I'm pretty sure that some major orchestras will pay a portion of the cost of your instrument? Or will reimburse you for said instrument. Also, isn't the the very nature of exclusivity cost prohibitive?

An instrument is a capital purchase that is tax-deductible as a Section 179 expense, for commercial musicians who treat themselves like a business. But if they sell it before the normal depreciation period, then they'll have to pay some of that back.

So, in answer to your question, the instrument is not tax-deductible because it is a capital expense that is supposed to bring in revenue, but the depreciation on capital investments is a business expense, and therefore is deductible. Section 179 is just a way to, within limits, allow a person to deduct the entire depreciation in the first year.

But even if you deduct the depreciation under Section 179, that only earns you back your marginal tax rate. If that rate is, say, 25%, then that $30K Yamaha becomes a $22.5K Yamaha, which is still mighty expensive.

Orchestras pay for instruments? Who knew?

Look, it's the oldest sales trick in the book to suggest to a buyer that the current opportunity is fleeting and if missed might result in a long wait.

And it's nothing new. Back when the Yorkbrunner was first on the market, there was a waiting line. When an instrument was ready, the person who had ordered it didn't have the money, and nobody else in line was ready to drop the require $13K (in early 80's dollars) until well down in the line. Each person heard that if they didn't exercise their option then, they would have to wait a long time. Thus, a (now) well-known Yorkbrunner owner got his Yorkbrunner much sooner than he anticipated, but even then it was a while before he was really sure he'd done the right thing. That suggests to me that even then, when there was a line (as there may still be) to get a new Yorkbrunner, the sales forces were warning of the delay that would result from missed opportunities as a means of motivating a somewhat ambivalent market.

Remember something I posted a long time ago: If a company can make only 5 of something a year, selling it to the 5 richest people who want it is what the company's owners will expect and demand.

Anyone can have one of these if they have the money ready to spend when these opportunities come up. Even I was personally invited to try one of the very early 826's. Not only am I not a Yamaha artist, I'm not an artist at all.

Rick "not in the market" Denney

[Matt Walters]

People will always afford what they value the most. I have no need for a $30K tuba or a $40K car. But when I fixed airplanes for a living, you bet your butt I owned a full set of Snap-on screwdrivers. I've seen people drive off in a $70K Mercedes refusing to buy their son or daughter a $1500 Bach Trumpet that will be worth almost that same amount after 10 years of use while that Mercedes would be lucky to be worth about $10K in 10 years.

What about a violinst that spends $5K just on a nice bow? You'll buy what you value and if it is a tool you need to do your job well, then it is justified.
A community bander like me is going to enjoying playing a $30K tuba for a few minutes on someone else's dime and go home satisfied that my little home made tuba is just fine for me and my playing needs. And, I won't begrudge anyone who can afford and wants a $30K tuba the right to buy something that they may enjoy and/or help them do their job.

[ASTuba]

A community bander like me is going to enjoying playing a $30K tuba for a few minutes on someone else's dime and go home satisfied that my little home made tuba is just fine for me and my playing needs. And, I won't begrudge anyone who can afford and wants a $30K tuba the right to buy something that they may enjoy and/or help them do their job.

Matt,

I think 90% of tuba players, community or professional, would kill to have a tuba as good of a player as your homebuilt tuba. I know I would.

[Chuck(G)]

Wasn't the big deal with Beanie Babies the idea that some characters were "Limited Production"? Doesn't the Franklin Mint advertise their stuff is "limited edition"?


One of the oldest gimmicks in the book.

"Ogg want more clams for his wheel because he not going to make another one."

[MartyNeilan]

Sounds like Yamaha is spending even more bread now to promote these "3-4 horns a year." I still wonder what gives...only because they've put a lot of effort into making sure people (like me) in the peanut gallery know about it. Just doesn't add up with the whole exclusivity hype. Not sure if it is teasing, or pandering.

The same reason why Detroit makes concept cars or super high end sports cars (Viper, GT40) that account for .00001% of their sales - it gets people interested and in their showroom. How many band directors out there who hear about this tuba will buy a YBB321 thinking there is some sort of trickle-down?

[lgb&dtuba]

The same reason why Detroit makes concept cars or super high end sports cars (Viper, GT40) that account for .00001% of their sales - it gets people interested and in their showroom. How many band directors out there who hear about this tuba will buy a YBB321 thinking there is some sort of trickle-down?

Well, if it's a $40k concept tuba, then it needs to come with the right accessories.

[ASTuba]

I don't really care if yamaha has been doing this sort of thing for years with woodwind instruments...thats a weak argument, based on that "tradition" of practice.

Dale,

Then if my argument is weak, tell me why? I'm not understanding here.

[Mitch]

This concept is far from new, and no brass instrument maker can take credit.

Ever come across a "Stradivarius" that happened to be made in Germany?

Luthiers, for centuries, have made copies of Master Instruments in hopes of earning a living off someone else's design/pattern/varnish etc. Mittenwald owes the 19th century to a lot of this activity.

More recently, a few carvers have made their entire business around building instruments that are "exact copies" of instruments from the likes of Stradivari, Guarneri and Guarneri del Gesu. These "exact copies" are the "same" as the original down to the millimeter, across, over, under, around, down to the nicks in the scroll. Sound familiar?

Some of these instruments have garnered prices in excess of $30,000 and more. Some of them are lemons, nothing more than a new fiddle that needs a lot of time to break in. But it's an "exact copy," so it's still WAY less than buying a real one.

Others, such as the works of Keith Hill (in Michigan), are tonal copies. World-renowned concert violinists have played his violins, brand new, and remarked how they played and sounded exactly like a 300-year-old violin. His violins can fetch $40,000 or more.

So there are markets for instruments that are copies of some renowned instrument. Nothing new, including the price. Beside the fact that as tubists, we have it relatively easy. A $30,000 violin is still basement-level, and have you priced a set of Hinger tympani for a home studio?

I agree that Yamaha has been hyping this horn for a long time.

They've had a "coming soon" marquis on their website for, what, close to 2 years? I'm sure it's a great horn, but kindly just get on with it.

[Rick Denney]

I don't really care if yamaha has been doing this sort of thing for years with woodwind instruments...thats a weak argument, based on that "tradition" of practice.

Dale,

Then if my argument is weak, tell me why? I'm not understanding here.

Dale wasn't saying you were wrong, he was complaining about Yamaha's practice, being defended solely on the basis of tradition. Dale is an iconoclast--tradition is to be avoided.

Rick "with a pointed stick" Denney

[windshieldbug]

Brings up an interesting point, though (yeah, pun intended, as loathsome as that may be...)

What if Chicago decided to sell one of the Yorks as a fundraiser? (hey- they have two!) How much WOULD it go for, and who'd be likely to end up with it