SMALLER TUBA FOR 'OLD' MAN

pwhitaker · Post by **pwhitaker** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:23 pm

I have a 16 year old silver-plated Yamaha 5-valve EB which has served me well as a quintet and dixieland horn for many years. I think it's a YEB-381S - has 4 pistons on the top and a dependent rotary 5th valve on the side. It plays very well in the lower registers - chromatically down to the low E and the pedals are very clear down to the pedal F.
I'm using a Miraphone 186 for the dixieland which is about all I can do anymore. (I'm 65 and my eyes went a little funny so I only play head charts now). I am willing to let this horn go for $2000 + shipping from Maine to Colorado. It has a nice vinyl case and I'll throw in a Conn Helleberg 7B and a Gardinelli 24AW clone.

You can PM me or reach me at pwhitaker@jhaweb.com if you are interested.

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:48 pm

I have a different model of York Master, it's not quite a tiny bit bigger than a standard 3/4, and is definitely lighter than 26 lbs. All I know is that 186's are dramatically bigger than mine

It's only three valves though... Gonna post it on for sale this evening if you're interested.

Other than that shameless advertisement, I'd highly suggest a Weril if you can find one. They're small, but play pretty well. And won't break the bank.

pjv · Post by **pjv** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:01 pm

Robb Stuart out in Arcadia, Calif. has (or at least had) a BBb York Master (#582783, post war) with 4 valves, bell up, lacquered in what Rob calls good+ condition for $1800. I have no idea if this ones smaller than yours, but if you contact him I'm sure he can help.

Robs honest, does great repairs, and sells his horns at very reasonable prices. I've copied his specs from the site. Good luck!

Used Instruments for Sale From
Robb Stewart Brass Instruments
140 E. Santa Clara St., #18 ~ Arcadia, CA 91006
Phone and Fax: (626) 447-1904
Email: oldbrass@altrionet.com

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:48 pm

pjv wrote:Robb Stuart out in Arcadia, Calif. has (or at least had) a BBb York Master (#582783, post war) with 4 valves, bell up, lacquered in what Rob calls good+ condition for $1800. I have no idea if this ones smaller than yours, but if you contact him I'm sure he can help.

Robs honest, does great repairs, and sells his horns at very reasonable prices. I've copied his specs from the site. Good luck!

Used Instruments for Sale From
Robb Stewart Brass Instruments
140 E. Santa Clara St., #18 ~ Arcadia, CA 91006
Phone and Fax: (626) 447-1904
Email: oldbrass@altrionet.com

I tried that Y-M (it's the same model as mine which is 5/4 in size) when I took my BBb York-Master into Robb for some minor repairs last spring. It could be a nice horn if it were overhauled, but in it's present condition it plays like a POS. And I told Robb exactly that. I have no idea if he has done any thing to that tuba to improve it since then.

Alex F · Post by **Alex F** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:26 pm

You might want to look into the new Meinl Weston 2011 Howard Johnson tuba. They will be available in top action (2011TA), front action piston (2011FA), and front-action rotary valve (2011FA) models. According to Matt at Dillon's, they put out a very decent sound for their small bore, have a 17.25" bell and are relatively light.

Give Matt or Jay at Dillon's a call. If you go to Dillon's web-site, you will find posted video clips showing Howard playing the tuba along with interviews with Gerhard Meinl and Steve Dillon.

The problem is that actual production models have not arrived. The last I heard was that they should be in towards the end of this year or early 2007, but they were supposed to have been available in June.

If you can attend Midwest Band & Otchestra in Chicago this month, MW states that they will have a TA and FA model available for inspection.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:27 pm

How about the Lidl 701? A 4-valve instrument only slightly heavier than the 3-valve YBB-103.

Alex F · Post by **Alex F** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:32 pm

The Lidl is a very nice horn. It's a 3/4 size horn with a 16.5" bell and a .720 bore. The problem is that there aren't any around in the US. Lee Stofer used to sell them (I bought mine from him). It weighs 16 lbs.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:36 pm

Alex F wrote:The Lidl is a very nice horn. It's a 3/4 size horn with a 16.5" bell and a .720 bore. The problem is that there aren't any around in the US. Lee Stofer used to sell them (I bought mine from him). It weighs 16 lbs.

You can order them from a Austrian retailer who will ship directly to the USA:

http://www.lidl.or.at/tuba/lbb701.php

They show the weight as 6.5 kg., which, if my 'rithmetic isn't too far off is about 14 lbs 6 oz.

There may be beter deals on this horn if you check around and inquire.

r smith · Post by **r smith** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:59 pm

I play a Yamaha YBB103 that weighs in at 13 Lbs. that I use for my Dixie Band. ( http://www.sixuvus.com ) &
( http://santasbrass.com ) I also have a Lidl 701 that weighs in at 15 Lbs. that I use in a Concert Band. They are both good instruments for the applications that I use them for.

r smith · Post by **r smith** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:16 pm

I forgot to mention that I am 69 Years old & find the Yamaha YBB 103 just fine for my Dixie Band. We have to move from one location to another for each performance. I use a strap & Lyre.
It works for me.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:26 pm

Speaking of M-W; a guy a church who is a bass trombonist doubles on a M-W 11 and gets an immense tone out of it with just a Wick 3L mouthpiece.

An upright bell King would be good as well.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:20 am

If you are willing to consider rotary valves, then a Cerveny might suite your requirements.

http://www.amati.cz/english/production/ ... _Tubas.htm

I tried a second hand 6/4 Cerveny BBb earlier this year and it had a great sound, but was incredibly light for a big tuba.

BTW I understand rotary tubas are generally lighter than the equivalent piston versions, but why should that be so?

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:32 am

I am 60 and play in the same type ensembles. If you are wedded to BBb as I am you really have few choices. I looked for 5 years for my perfect instrument and never found it. My best option is a Miraphone 184. Same Miraphone sound, but a bit lighter, with a .705 bore and less than 16 lbs. I have played the Lidl at Lee's and liked it a lot. If you want to stay with piston horns, particularly front action, the list gets smaller. I recently tried a Yamaha 621 BBb and almost switched, ...almost. Also an older Olds 4 valve 3/4 or 5/8, whatever they call it would be in my opinion the closest thing to your York. Again relatively rare. Good luck on your quest. I'm glad mine is over.

Teubonium · Post by **Teubonium** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:45 pm

Howdy Colorful Colorado neighbor,

I am 66 with some arthritis in my back. I recently sought out a lighter horn that would serve me well in community bands and 5tets.
I got a Meinl-Weston 2141 EEb 5 valve. .748 bore, 17" bell, and weighs about 17 lbs. (on my bathroom scale). It holds its own in large concert bands, is easy to handle, I like its big sound, and the ergonomics are good (for me, YMMV). I just can't praise this horn enough.

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:56 pm

Both of the tubas in my music room probably qualify as "smaller and lighter" than your York Master bell front, but only one will give you anything close to the same sound.

The new King 2341 is officially a 4/4, and delivers a big sound. it's not exactly "tiny" - but it's certainly "small". It might not be "smaller enough" to justify the expense. I have a wheeled case that is fairly large...and that I haven't used in years. In a gig bag, it's just big enough that I prefer to use the backpack straps rather than carry it one-handed if I'm carrying it further than across the parking lot. CAUTION: the 2341 sound is of the "enveloping" type rather than the "penetrating" type.

The Yamaha 621 is a 3/4. It might be difficult to carry your 45-piece ensemble with it, though - "there is no replacement for displacement". Also, it's now very expensive when purchased new, and there don't seem to be very many on the "used" market (this might be it's strongest recommendation - the scarcity is NOT because they fall apart; the build quality is very impressive). Like me, I think most owners are holding onto theirs against the day when they need a good "tiny tuba". I've had mine for 10 years and you can have mine when you pry it from my cold dead fingers. The sound is (relatively speaking) more "penetrating" than "enveloping", but the absolute usable volume is noticeably small. When I switched from the 621 to the 2341 I was often the only tuba in a 50-piece band, and on the first rehearsal with the 2341 I got several comments on how much my sound had "improved". I've improved enough since then so that I *think* I could carry that group with the 621 (with a reasonable sound)...but it would require *work*. With the 2341, it's not an issue.

In a gig bag, the Yamaha 621 is hardly bigger than a Euphonium in a standard case. With a Blue Note strap, it's easier to play than a trombone.

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:56 pm

I'm 65 and geezerhood is staring me right in the face.

After 40 years of Bb horns. I copped a Russian Army Eb for $10 that played enough for me to appreciate how well that range matched up with John Reno, my lead singer (low tenor-high baritone).
I got my 1940 King Eb three valve-good false tones, a heavy horn with a 24 inch recording bell, cheap off E-Bay.
It was an easy transition from Bb. I play it in bars on a full-support stand so alls I got to do is lug it in and out to the van and strap it in (no case).
I can play bass lines right down on the bottom with the occasional false tone. Jumping up an octave to solo, the darn thing sings so pretty.

Dennis Gray
tubatooter1940
www.johnreno.com/

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:31 pm

meinl-Weston 18,
great 3/4 BBb 4 valved rotary horn.

The small Czeveny mentioned above is nice too if you get a good one. They are also branded as Musica.

ken k

Chriss2760 · Post by **Chriss2760** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:37 pm

The sound is (relatively speaking) more "penetrating" than "enveloping

Well said. If you are looking for a sound similar to your York Master, the Yamaha isn't the horn you are looking for. It's tight (sounding and handling) and very fast in response (at the expense of resonance.) But it's a heck of a dixieland/jazz-in-general horn. You may want to watch for a Miraphone 184, maybe in Eb. Dan?

chipster55 · Post by **chipster55** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:33 am

I'm an old fart at 51 who plays a 3/4 Amati ABB323, .640, 16" bell. It's sufficient for an "economy" horn and light enough to play while standing. I've found that the Helleberg mouthpiece gets the air through it a lot better than the Bach 18 & 24 I previously used.

dunelandmusic · Post by **dunelandmusic** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:47 pm

If you can find one, an older York, either Bb or Eb with a 19-20 inch bell, a 3 valve Eb would be lighter with a good sound.
They made some 4 valve Bb's that were nearly identical in size to the Eb.

How a bout a Conn 5J ? a modern horn, smaller size, not too heavy

http://www.tubanews.com/instrument223.html

TubeNet

SMALLER TUBA FOR 'OLD' MAN

Yamaha Eb