Chicago Civic

[quinterbourne]

Is there a place online that has excerpts?

http://www.cherry-classics.com/

...has everything.

[quinterbourne]

How come is the tuba audition the only string/woodwind/brass audition to be for associate status only?

I also found it interesting that there are 7 associate members for the 1 tuba position while only 3 associate members for the 2 tenor trombone positions. It seems like for most instrumentalists, there is about a 3 to 2 ratio of associate members to regular members... could you enlighten me to possible reasons for this irregularity?

[MikeMason]

I tried to resist the urge,but failed.I will,however try to be diplomatic.Bob,you need a lesson with a serious and honest Pro .The people at the audition will have been preparing for years and/or decades for this audition.They will have thousands of dollars worth of equipment.They will have extensive pro orchestra experience.They will have studied with the finest teachers and pro players at the finest music schools and conservatories.They will have postponed relationships and car ownership and made many other sacrifices to be in a position to compete for this. They will definitely know what instrument they play.And this is a training orchestra.I know many of you will say i'm mean,etc. but before Bob goes to this audition,someone needs to start opening his eyes.Someone did it for me.I was hurt for a while.But it was true.Free advice. Worth the price...

[sc_curtis]

I would like to respectfully disagree with Mike and Doc. Yes, there will be some serious players that audition for the group, but if he wants to put the time and effort into working up the audition material, he should go for it.

At first it may seem like excellent advice, but I haven't heard Bob play, and I'm willing to bet neither of you have. The advice about taking a lesson or 2 with a pro is good, however. Your questions could be answered by them, and they would have some idea of how you play, and what you would need to work on the most. If not anything else, it will keep you focused on the things that matter most, and prevent you from possibly wasting good practice time of less-than-important stuff.

Also, the fact that you are within driving distance is a positive. Why not? Plus, the panels on most auditions make notes, and you can usually request to have them sent to you, or someone is willing to discuss it with you. Every little bit of experience helps! Just make sure that this is what you really want to do.

[MikeMason]

sc, he doesn't know which instrument to try out on.He doesn't own a copy of all the exerpts,let alone studied all of them.He doesn't own even one real tuba.The audition is 3 mos. out.I'm not saying he shouldn't audition,but there seems to be some major gaps in the understanding about this audition and this orchestra.Better to find out here than in front of a disrespected committee.

Doc, http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/tubaman990/

[MikeMason]

Just to clarify, the tuba James is holding is not my holton.It is a seriously tricked out York with a 22" bell.I just happen to have it in my photo bucket.My holton plays good but sounds great.Some slide pulling is required,but not a problem with the top facing slides.It was a very trashed 3 valve school horn when I found it.It is much happier now....

[sc_curtis]

I would never tell someone to not audition, but I would highly encourage someone to know what to expect and be fully prepared.Doc

Completely agree.

sc, he doesn't know which instrument to try out on.He doesn't own a copy of all the exerpts,let alone studied all of them.He doesn't own even one real tuba.The audition is 3 mos. out.I'm not saying he shouldn't audition,but there seems to be some major gaps in the understanding about this audition and this orchestra.Better to find out here than in front of a disrespected committee.

I can see where you're coming from. But, there are people out there who may not "know all of the details" that can play better than some players who "know a lot about such things."

I like the idea of Bob taking a lesson with someone. Hopefully, if Bob does take a lesson, the person he takes from will be better suited for giving advice about whether he should do it or not.

[tofu]

I would never tell someone to not audition, but I would highly encourage someone to know what to expect and be fully prepared.Doc

Completely agree.

sc, he doesn't know which instrument to try out on.He doesn't own a copy of all the exerpts,let alone studied all of them.He doesn't own even one real tuba.The audition is 3 mos. out.I'm not saying he shouldn't audition,but there seems to be some major gaps in the understanding about this audition and this orchestra.Better to find out here than in front of a disrespected committee.

I can see where you're coming from. But, there are people out there who may not "know all of the details" that can play better than some players who "know a lot about such things."

I like the idea of Bob taking a lesson with someone. Hopefully, if Bob does take a lesson, the person he takes from will be better suited for giving advice about whether he should do it or not.

I think you both are giving excellent advice. I went to a suburban Chicago HS and two of my band friends made it into the Civic as juniors. One was the prinicipal trumpet, but had not taken lessons from any name players when he got in, but was a tremendous talent and did take private lessons just not from anyone of note . Once in however, he did study with several names including AJ. The other had extensive studies with names. Her father was in the CSO so she was very well prepped. So it may happen that Bob has what it takes, but it is good advice to seek out a pro and to prepare like your life depends on it. I can't imagine trying to audition on both tuba & trombone. Go get'em Bob!

[SirCharls]

So,

Anyone know why one can only audition for the Associates positions, and not the principal position?

I looked on the website, and there is a Principal and a list of Associates for this season. Will they not have a Principal for next year? Just use the Associates when they need to?

Charles D. Ortega
1st Associate (a few years ago!)
Chicago Civic Orchestra

[MartyNeilan]

Can anyone name somebody other than Charlie Vernon that has taken a major audition on his or her double? His double was the TROMBONE!

I personally know a number of trombone pros who have auditioned on both tenor and bass and are supremely competent on both - but I don't think it appropriate to list names. I think quite a few players on this board are professional doublers - whether electric or uptight bass, bass trombone, keyboards, or whatever. Many of these guys are on orchestra sub lists for their double. Tuba and euph doubles are particularly common among kolledge perfessoers (do I have to pay Bloke a royality?) but unfortunately they don't get to audition for orchestras on the baritone. There are even a few tuba players out there with trumpet chops that could put anyone less than a top 10 principle to shame.

Plus, there is that guy in Chicago with the big silver tuba who plays clarinet

I do respect you, Harold, and realize what you are trying to say.
Based on many of his questions over the last few months, Bob may appear to not be ready for prime time, but of course we haven't heard him play. There was always that kid with the fourth valved taped down on his Eb tuba. Let Bob go do his thing if he wants to - if he wins congrats to him, and if he falls on his face it may still be a good experience that he can take something from.

[sc_curtis]

Can anyone name somebody other than Charlie Vernon that has taken a major audition on his or her double?

There are certainly some serious doublers tuba/bass trombone in the recording studios, but can anyone think of someone that does that in an orchestral arena?

Didn't Chester Schmitz play trombone in the BSO early on in his career? Of course, with anything, I may have remembered incorrectly...

[Steve Marcus]

If I were on the audition committee, I wouldn't take you seriously if you auditioned for more than one position.

But the Civic Audition Information states (and this is not a criticism of Harold):

Applicants are encouraged, although not required, to audition on auxiliary instruments. However, upon acceptance into Civic, all members are required to play auxiliary instruments.

By the way, has anyone ever been accepted into Civic who did not have intentions of becoming a full-time performer/music educator?

[ZNC Dandy]

[quote="harold"]Can anyone name somebody other than Charlie Vernon that has taken a major audition on his or her double?

There are certainly some serious doublers tuba/bass trombone in the recording studios, but can anyone think of someone that does that in an orchestral arena?[/quote]


Pete Norton did. He was Bass Trombone in Cincinnati after College. Then was Principal in Montreal. Then came back to Cincinnati to play bass trombone again. It gets no better anywhere than Pete Norton.

Also, Eugene Adam may be the person in Boston sc was thinking of. He played Principal, and then switched to tuba afetr World War II.

[sc_curtis]

Also, Eugene Adam may be the person in Boston sc was thinking of. He played Principal, and then switched to tuba afetr World War II.

Thanks for clearing it up. I guess I just remembered Boston, and spliced thoughts.

[ASTuba]

I think quite a few players on this board are professional doublers - whether electric or uptight bass, bass trombone, keyboards, or whatever.

I hear the sirens of the spelling police around the corner. Better run!

Knowing most classical double bassists, I think this is fitting.

[Chuck(G)]

Yes, double bassists could be considered uptight, I suppose, but a clearer distinction was in order.

I dunno--most double-bassists I know can match a tuba player drink for drink.

[quinterbourne]

But the Civic Audition Information states (and this is not a criticism of Harold):

Applicants are encouraged, although not required, to audition on auxiliary instruments. However, upon acceptance into Civic, all members are required to play auxiliary instruments.

I think the term auxiliary instruments is intended for bass clarinet, Eb clarinet, piccolo, english horn and contrabassoon.

[windshieldbug]

I'm an upright bassist, not a double bassist. I do not play in an orchestra. I do not own a bow, and have no intention of getting one.

Well, I own several bows, but no basses. I'll send you one - German or French?

[windshieldbug]

Is there a distinction between upright vs. double bass? Does the "double" refer to playing both arco and pizz?

double bass = size. Like a Contrabass tuba. There is no difference in size between double and upright, but double bass most often refers to an orchestral use, while bass alone can mean bass guitar or string bass, therefore the qualifier "upright".

[Chuck(G)]

Is there a distinction between upright vs. double bass? Does the "double" refer to playing both arco and pizz?

Nope, just an alternative for "contrabass" (as in "twice as low as bass"). Sometimes I wonder if that might have been the original intention behind labeling contrabass tubas as BBb and CC...