for all you tbone doublers out there..

Tubainsauga · Post by **Tubainsauga** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:46 am

Bass Bone: Bach 1.5g
Large Bore Tenor & Euph: Shilke 51D
Small Bore tenor: 11c (roughly, actually the Al Kay piece)

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:54 am

Griego .75 Deco on Getzen 1062 FDR
Anything bigger seems to cause the sound to spread and loose the "trombone" character.

Tom Mason · Post by **Tom Mason** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:22 am

For high tenor work, a Bach 3G. For low tenor/high bass: Schilke 57 or Bach 1 1/2 G. For truely bass work, a Doug Elliott set-up. For Cheating Bass work in the contra range: a shortened Conn 3 tuba mouthpiece (the old cone shaped ones).

Tom Mason

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:30 am

For those of you who want to keep the rim as wide as possible, but not lose the sound of a tenor trombone, I highly recommend giving Doug Elliot a call. He can help you set up a mouthpiece that gives you the comfort of a wide rim, but not the muddiness that goes with it. Also expensive, but well worth it, is the Alessi line of Greg Black mouthpieces. Joe is so strong, he can play principal on a rim that is roughly 2G sized... but again, the rest of the mouthpiece is tenor-sized. For a bass trombone or tuba player doubling on tenor, it's a great choice.

dopey · Post by **dopey** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:50 pm

thanks for the reply bob, and everyone else!

Glad I checked back im on break so i haven't had time around a computer much.

I am really just starting to play tbone in a ensemble, I know the positions in such by im by no means fluent or very quick.. I found this out the other night when I subbed tbone in one of the basketball bands, I couldn't sight read to save my live! anything much quicker then quarter notes and you lost me!

I'm really lookin forward to this, I have noticed if I play tbone then tuba, no major affects in my chops.. however if I play tuba then trombone.. huge difference in my chops in a negative way.. maybe its just me.

Eupher6 · Post by **Eupher6** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:01 pm

bass trombone: Bach 2G
large bore tenor: Schilke 51D
Euph: Wick Mead model 3.5AL

I play mostly euph and bass 'bone these days, so any attempt to play the tenor would seem like playing a toy.

jobriant · Post by **jobriant** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:10 pm

On Mirafone 186 BBb -- Denis Wick 2L
On Mirafone CC -- Denis Wick 2L
On Yamaha 981 Eb -- Perantucci PT72
On Alexander F -- Perantucci PT72
On Conn 24J -- Bach 7
(for non-jazz applications)
On Conn 24J -- Perantucci PT72
(gives an "edge" to articulation, for Trad Jazz)
On King 3B Silversonic w/ F attachment -- Bach 6 1/2 AL
On Wallace Bass Trombone -- Bach 6 1/2 AL
On 1925 Holton Double-Bell Euph -- Bach 6 1/2 AL
On Gautrot Brevete Ophicleide -- Bach 6 1/2 AL
On Baudoin 1810 Church Serpent (reproduction) --
The reproduction mouthpiece that came with it

-- Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:26 pm

Bob Wrote - I have a huge low range, so the only thing I expect that a tuba mouthpiece to do is to help with my shifting

That's exactly why I use it. There is little noticable change in tone from the Schilke 60. In fact the Bach 30E may even be a bit brighter. The real difference is in the facility. Those bottom tbone choir parts require a bunch of agility in the pedal range. I just couldn't do it on a bass trombone mouthpiece. I talked to my hero, Willis Howell, who did the bottom parts on all those "Spiritual to the Bone" recordings and found out he was using an "cheater" Effer mp. I figured if it was good enough for Willis it was good enough for me. I went from struggling to hanging pretty good over night.

My bass trombone is a Besson and I love it. However, the mp receiver is made for a Wick and I had to shorten all my mouthpieces as well redo the taper to conform to the Wick receiver. MAJOR PITA! I just pulled the same trick on the 30E and made sure that when inserted it goes in all the way to the cup. Plays really well in tune that way.

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:23 pm

Bob Wrote - Have you tried any other mouthpieces for that purpose?

I've tried a bunch, but nothing works as well for me as the 30E. If I could find a 30CB I would buy it just to see. I have heard that Schilke makes one too, a 62, but have never been able to find one of those either. My old teacher Bruce Nelson, late of the Chicago Lyric Opera, had some that he used for the really low opera stuff, but I think they were all special order from various manufacturers. Elliott can fix you up, as can Warburton down in Florida. Just tell them what shank, cup, backbore and rim you want and let them use their imagination. They can develop some unbelievable prices for you.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:09 pm

Bob1062 wrote: I would really like to try the Jim Self mouthpieces when I get my new tuba. He has a bass tuba mouthpiece, a bass trombone mouthpiece (tuba rim with 1.5G cup), and a tenor tuba mouthpiece (tuba rim on 6.5, I think...).

HELP ME FIND THIS BASS TROMBONE MOUTHPIECE!

LoL, I've been scouting around everywhere looking for it. Did I miss it somewhere?

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:11 pm

lgb&dtuba wrote:
Arkietuba wrote:When I play t-bone I'm usually the lead in a jazz band. I play on an Olds Ambassdor from the '60s. I play on the mouthpieces that came with the horn when I got it 8 years ago. They are and Olds 3 and a Bach 11C. From what I've been told they are really small...I haven't done much research on the mouthpieces (according to the Band Museum in Pine Bluff they are pretty rare, but that's about all I know). They're great for lead playing, easy to pop those high notes out.
Before I recently got my King 2B I played an Olds Ambassador I've had for about 30 years. Picked it up new in a record store (yes, record store). A good jazz horn, especially given that it was considered a student model. Weighs quite a bit more than the Urbie Green model 2B, though, which has a shortened tuning section so first position is about an inch out so you can use slide vibrato in first. I'm still getting used to the altered slide positions.

King doesn't make that model any longer. Martin has the Urbie Green name now, but I haven't seen one so I don't know how it compares.

My King was built sometime in the 60's (I think) and I got it from a fellow band member who buys and restores old instruments. It is in pristine, like new condition with an essentially frictionless slide. The horn is worth several times what he sold it to me for, and we both knew it.

He also plays tuba, euph and trombone in the LGB&D so hopefully that will keep this thread at least in touch with tubas.

On the Olds I use either a Schilke 42B or 43A depending on my mood. Both good mouthpieces for playing up high.

The Martin Urbie Green is a very small and lightweight tenor like the 2B. I am not sure if ti also has the shortened tuning slide. It has a very nice curved hand grip which i think should become standard on all trombones, very comfortable to hold. A friend of mine has one and I have blown it a few times but never really compared it directly to a King. I think they would be very comparable however. King still makes a shortened tuning slide 2B but I believe it is now called the Jiggs Whigham model.

I have an old Olds Special that I use for my small bore gigs and it really can cut through a big band. neat horn. A bit heavier guage bell than Kings. I played 3Bs for years and the Olds special has a different feel and sound. It is a bit more ballistic.....

ken k

sc_curtis · Post by **sc_curtis** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:25 pm

djwesp wrote:HELP ME FIND THIS BASS TROMBONE MOUTHPIECE!

LoL, I've been scouting around everywhere looking for it. Did I miss it somewhere?

http://www.jimself.com/hardware.htm

Jim Self website wrote:On Bass Trombone I use a special Marcinkiewicz mouthpiece which is like my standard tuba rim and a Bach 1 1/2 G Bass Trombone cup.

I would try contacting Marcinkiewicz. I bet they could duplicate it for you.
http://www.marcinkiewicz.com/main.htm
Email: info@marcinkiewicz.com
Phone: (503) 263 - 2456
Fax: (503) 263 - 2484
Address:
Marcinkiewicz Co. Inc.
593 SE 1st Ave.
Canby, OR 97013
USA
----------------------------

Also found this:
http://www.hornguys.com/tubamps.htm

Hornguys website wrote:Roger Bobo Tenor Tuba - The tuba player's euphonium mouthpiece. Can work on cimbasso. Not a good bass trombone mouthpiece. Tuba sized rim with a 1.5G cup, large bass trombone size shank, BOBOTT $65

Doubt that it has the same rim, it just says "tuba rim", so who knows? I find it funny that it specifically says "not a good bass trombone mouthpiece."

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:14 am

Hey tbnal: in addition to your other mouthpieces, you could also try a Wick 4 or 5, as they are the about the same diameter as your 30E as well.

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:19 am

in addition to your other mouthpieces, you could also try a Wick 4 or 5, as they are the about the same diameter as your 30E as well.

Yeah, but I've already cut the Effer mp down to a bass Trombone shank, and it works really well. The facility I gained with that one little change is remarkable. I don't want to destroy any more good tuba mp's.

bububassboner · Post by **bububassboner** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:11 pm

Large bore tbone Wick 4AL
bass bone Douglas Yeo
euph Wick 4AL
tuba all it says is ALEXANDRE(yes spelled that way)

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:30 pm

The small shank Wicks are the true .490 small shank, and they probably fit your bass bone receiver without modification.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:05 pm

i just can not imagine using a cut down tuba mouthpiece in a bass bone. It just can not sound characteristic of a trombone. i used to have a small receiver on my Boosey & Hawkes Eb tuba and ocassionaly I would put my Denis Wick 4 mouthpeice in the bass trombone (just for kicks, never on a gig) but it never sounded good at all. I guess perhaps I am a bit more picky about my bass bone sound, since I was a trombone player first and then started playing tuba later in college. I actually played a pea shooter tenor in HS (3B) and then was a bass bone major in college. I do not even like my sound with a shilke 60 or a douglas yeo piece in it. it is just too spread and the artix are too woofy, not at all a clear characteristic trombone sound. I hate trombones that sound like euphoniums. Don't get me wrong I love the euphonium, but a trombone should not sound like that. That is why there are two different instruments in the concert band and in brass bands. If they were supposed to sound the same tthey wouldn't have bothered writing different parts. I know three fabulous euph players whom I often play with in local bands or in my tuba/euph quartet "2BAS2EU", but I hate it when they play trombone. They sound like they are still playing their euphs.

The "tuba on a stick" sound concept just doesn't do it for me, especially in a big band setting. The bass bone has to cut with some edge and blend with the tenors, which are usually smaller horns. I guess in an orchestra where there are no euphs, the bones tend to get broader tones, but I feel many of the tonal concepts are getting too broad.

Ken "OK I will get off my soap box now" k

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:48 am

Different horns, different mouthpieces, different embouchures and playing styles -- vivre la difference!

Sandman333 · Post by **Sandman333** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:58 am

Marching trombone- YSL-643R single trigger tenor - Kelly 5G
Jazz Bass- also the YSL-643R single trigger tenor - Bach 1G

Hopefully soon I'll be getting a real bass.

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:12 am

Ken K wrote, "i just can not imagine using a cut down tuba mouthpiece in a bass bone. It just can not sound characteristic of a trombone. i used to have a small receiver on my Boosey & Hawkes Eb tuba and ocassionaly I would put my Denis Wick 4 mouthpeice in the bass trombone (just for kicks, never on a gig) but it never sounded good at all. I guess perhaps I am a bit more picky about my bass bone sound, since I was a trombone player first and then started playing tuba later in college. I actually played a pea shooter tenor in HS (3B) and then was a bass bone major in college. I do not even like my sound with a shilke 60 or a douglas yeo piece in it. it is just too spread and the artix are too woofy, not at all a clear characteristic trombone sound. I hate trombones that sound like euphoniums. Don't get me wrong I love the euphonium, but a trombone should not sound like that. That is why there are two different instruments in the concert band and in brass bands. If they were supposed to sound the same tthey wouldn't have bothered writing different parts. I know three fabulous euph players whom I often play with in local bands or in my tuba/euph quartet "2BAS2EU", but I hate it when they play trombone. They sound like they are still playing their euphs.

The "tuba on a stick" sound concept just doesn't do it for me, especially in a big band setting. The bass bone has to cut with some edge and blend with the tenors, which are usually smaller horns. I guess in an orchestra where there are no euphs, the bones tend to get broader tones, but I feel many of the tonal concepts are getting too broad.

I guess that was aimed at me...so. After having lots of trouble getting the bottom of 6 and 8 part trombone choir literature played to my satisfaction, I began to look for some answers. The word from the pros seemed to be, cheat, lie, steal, fake or anything else to get the part played. Nobody cares about your sound if the notes aren't there. If I could have played the parts in that range, F below the staff and down an octave plus, I would never have gone to the Effer mp. The shallow cup of the 30E does help to maintain a characteristic Bass Bone sound, and the pitch is more centered and controlled. My other troops say they prefer tuning to the effer mp. Give a listen to a group called Spiritual to the Bone. Willis Howell is using a Holton Body with two Thayers and a Effer mp. A quite appropriate sound for that setting. I'll just keep on cheating, thank you very much, because I like the result.