Another Kelly mouthpiece topic

[tubatom91]

I dont know if this has already been covered in a previous discusion but,my kellyberg mouthpiece is one of the things I never use. The thing that really annoys me when I use it is that it rattles like mad in the leadpipe of my yamaha (its not my playing several have said the same thing). The other thing is that it really isnt that great sounding (to me). anybody have advice or experience the same?

[MartyNeilan]

I think the Kelly mouthpieces are well designed and well manfactured. However, I share in your gripe about the vibration as well. I have tried my Kellyberg on both my own horns and school horns when I was giving lessons, and it seemed to buzz in the mouthpiece receiver on most of the horns, no matter how hard I had it cranked down. Perhaps it has to do with the material, or maybe it is the shank size or taper that is just a little too small, I don't know, but the buzz / rattle is annoying to an otherwise very decent product. I have noticed the same thing on my Kelly 1.5G bass trombone mouthpiece.

FWIW, I have noticed the occassional shank buzz with stainless steel mouthpieces on select pitches, but never with brass mouthpieces on the same horns - anybody ever experience that???

[Kevin Hendrick]

It does sound like a shank-to-receiver size mismatch, doesn't it? I think the Kelly tuba 'pieces have standard American tapers, so if your horn has a European-sized receiver, you've probably got about a .005" gap all the way around the taper. In any case, you might want to try building up the diameter of the taper a bit (tape works OK for testing -- you might want to have an adapter made from brass shim stock if the tape helps).

[iiipopes]

I wrapped a piece of golfer's lead tape around the mouthpiece at the top of the shank next to the bowl, and, viola, no more buzzing, and better dynamic range: increased the overall volume I can get, and gave support to the pp and ppp. I tried an additional piece around just under the rim, but that damped response too much, so I took that one back off.

Yesterday and a week ago played outdoors for an hour each volunteering for the Salvation Army to give a bell ringer a break. I confirmed my liking of my Kelly 18 as the ultimate outdoor tuba mouthpiece: great tone, no temperature issues, instant warming to the embouchure so you don't freeze your lips off, and very comfortable.

[tubatom91]

I'll have to try the tape idea. I only use my kelly when on the field and if I have no time to warm up. I use my gold helleburg 7B for concert and marching all the time.

[yohan]

But, for playing they simply do not resonate enough to get a "good" sound

I had a trumpet player tell me this same myth. He was seated in front of me at the time. I asked him how I sounded. He said great as usual. I then told him that I had been using my Kellyberg the whole time.

My experience is that the tonal qualities of my Kelly are just fine as long as I stay in the pp to mf+ range, but things get awkward when I try to play louder. I don't think the problem is too little resonance, I think it is the other way around - too little damping. (why else would you even consider making them there 'megatone' or similar mouthpieces?)

I think I'll try the lead tape tip, if I can only find some... closest match so far is aluminum tape, which may not have the same effect.

[iiipopes]

Any store that sells golf accessories should have some. That's where I got mine.

Yes, I also play. I shoot in the "80's." 90 degrees and hotter outside is too hot!

[Captain Sousie]

But, for playing they simply do not resonate enough to get a "good" sound

I had a trumpet player tell me this same myth. He was seated in front of me at the time. I asked him how I sounded. He said great as usual. I then told him that I had been using my Kellyberg the whole time.

I think the reason people feel this way is because lexan provides much less feedback then conventional brass pieces and thus feels a bit "dead". Who knows maybe this deadness causes some players to actually produce a worse sound since they feel bad. The trumpeters I know who have them rarely use them due to that lack of feedback, and I know more tubists and euphoniumists/trombonists that use them full time. It would seem that trumpeters need feedback more. Anyways, I enjoyed my Kelly 1.5G on Bass trombone as it worked very well.

I hate to admit it, but I am sometimes a trumpet player when the pep band trumpets are gone on a school trip. When that happens I play a kelly 1-1/2C. I can say that I love my kelly mouthpiece for everything except the excessive volume I have to produce. It doesn't give me much feedback but that doesn't bother me. The real problem is that my tone starts to spread at a much lower volume than my Yamaha or Benge mouthpieces. for my normal playing the sound on the kelly is, as both my trumpet playing sister and clarinet playing wife say, a lot warmer and much sweeter than the metal pieces but it just doesn't cut through as well. This lack of ability to cut through like a lazer is, in my opinion, the reason more trumpeters hate the kellys. This probably could be fixed with adding weight, but I haven't tried it so far. (I will be visiting the golfer pro shop later this week so we'll see) I have never had a buzz with them in any of my horns (trumpet, trombone, euph, 3/4 EEb tuba, 4/4 CC tuba, 6/4 BBb tuba) and I really like them for cold gigs. All around, I think that they have gotten a fairly bad rap and most of it, if not all of it, is undeserved.

On a side note, I have been wanting to get one of their clarinet bells for my wife but I haven't been able to find out anything about them. Anybody heard anything?

Sou

[chipster55]

I was experiencing what to me was "dead sound" using a Kelly 18. Then I tried a Kellyberg and my sound has improved a great deal. I didn't experience any buzzing with either mouthpiece, though. But I compared my Bach 18 to the Conn Helleberg and the improvement in my sound was comparable to the Kellys. So, I've switched to the Helleberg & Kellyberg to play my small bore 3/4 Amati with. I've used the Kellyberg indoors and outdoors and will again at TubaChristmas.

[iiipopes]

Hey, Chipster: a guy who used to play in my community band did the same thing on his 3/4 Conn. Couldn't get a tone worth anything with a Bach 18. Switched to a Conn Helleberg. Great tone from then on. He gave me the 18!

[thedeep42]

i've been using a kelly 18 on both my CC and my F of late as it's all i can play on due to mouthpiece allergies. i've learned to get a pretty commanding sound out of either. i also have a kelly 51D for my euph. The kelly 18 fits well in my PT F tuba, but not in my Rudy CC. It buzzes annoyingly on low open notes and when i only have 4 or 5/4 down. The 51D vibrates whenever i play a second space C on my euph and i'm just not that impressed with the sound generally, but it gets me through gigs. thinking of trying tape. my theory is that a good enough player can make about anything sound pretty darn good if they play on it enough and make it their own.

[MartyNeilan]

I recently bought a Kelly small shank 12C trombone mouthpiece and have not any of the shank issues I have had on the tuba or bass trombone models.
Some thought on the shank size issue revisited:

There are no standards of anything with shank size. I've noticed that the G&W Euro shanks aren't as large as my Sidey SSH euro shank or on other Euro shank mouthpieces I've seen. Truly, it's all an inexact science.

[Dan Schultz]

I use a Kelly 18 quite a bit. I have several very respected (and expensive) mouthpieces but seem to migrate back the the plastic ones. As far as the hullaballoo over 'the best mouthpiece' is concerned.... I find it a bit goofy to assume that a good mouthpiece has to be gold plated, stainless steel, and/or expensive. Some of the tuba greats did just fine with generic mouthpiece. In fact, I recall that one of them (someone can fill in the name) simply played on whatever mouthpiece came with the horn!

As far as the buzzing of the plastic mouthpiece goes.... I think it is the result of the flexible plastic and it's the very thin section at the end of the taper vibrating against the inside the leadpipe. Can't prove it, but that's what I think.

[Dean E]

It does sound like a shank-to-receiver size mismatch, doesn't it? I think the Kelly tuba 'pieces have standard American tapers, so if your horn has a European-sized receiver, you've probably got about a .005" gap all the way around the taper. . . .

I agree. A slightly imprefect taper match would cause buzzing and other problems, such as leakage. Also, the mouthpiece could be bottoming out in the receiver.

Old-time machinists (of which I am one) would check by applying an extremely thin film of artists' Prussan Blue oil paint to the receiver with a Q-tip and inserting the mouthpiece. Gently rotate the mouthpiece to pick up the Prussian Blue from the receiver. Remove and inspect the mouthpiece. If the tapers are not a prefect match, the mismatch will show in the non-blue areas.

All you need is a tiny tube of Prussian Blue from the art supply store. WARNING: Prussian Blue can be horribly messy. So keep it off of your fingers and have plenty of clean-up rags.

I used a Kelllyberg recently at an outside TubaChristmas with no buzzing or damping that I could tell. I played the tuba 1 parts on my Willson 3050RZ 5/4 CC, and was satisfied. I got the Kellyberg to avoid numb lips.

[MaryAnn]

I have four Kellys; the french horn MDC fits and plays fine; the cornet 5C also fits and plays fine.

Neither 51D (larger or small shank) fits the receiver of my King 2280. Well, the large shank "fits" as in "goes in 1/4 inch and sticks, but the euph is a quarter tone flat with the slide all the way in. The narrow shank bottomed out and rattled, and was still flat; we cut off enough of the shank so that it no longer bottomed out and then I taped it so it quit rattling, and that's what I use, but the 2280 seems happiest, intonation-wise, with a 12C, which is pretty shallow. Maybe it's a beginner euph.

Neither euph shank fits in my MW rotary bariton; so far the only mouthpiece that fits is the one that came with it, and it has no markings on it, making it impossible to find another even though I'd like a deeper cup.

MA

[Ulli]

I only take my Kellyberg, when it's cold or when there is a risk to throw it down on the street while marching.
The only, I find fault with is, that lexan doesn't fell slippery at the lips.
By the Kellyberg with the small rim is that not a great problem, but I dont use my 25.
Ulli

[Kevin Hendrick]

Neither euph shank fits in my MW rotary bariton; so far the only mouthpiece that fits is the one that came with it, and it has no markings on it, making it impossible to find another even though I'd like a deeper cup.

Your MW may need a European (medium) shank mouthpiece (might work for the King also). Just checked Kelly's website -- they have both 5G and 51D 'pieces available with the Euro shank.

[iiipopes]

Last year in community band I had a few of the band director low brass players listen "blind" as I switched between my Kelly 18 and my Bach 18. Over a combined century of directing experience, and untold decades of playing experience could not tell the difference.