Woodwind Brasswind

[lgb&dtuba]

I see now why the Music123 and WWBW web sites looked so similar. Didn't know they were really the same company.

I had bad luck with both ordering stuff over the past year. Four times I placed orders for different things that went on back order. Some for months on end. I eventually gave up, canceled the orders and found other sources for what I had ordered.

An adapter for trombone to European shank mouthpiece, a trombone mute, a kid's guitar and a tuba mouthpiece. It seems like they have a lot of stuff in their online catalog, but not much actually in stock.

JIm Wagner

[iiipopes]

As of yesterday, Conn Selmer, Inc. is now the high bidder for Woodwind Brasswind in the bankruptcy court precedings. Their $40.5 million dollar proposal bests that of Guitar Center by $3.4 million, all subject to the bankruptcy court approval, of course.
Info from The South Bend Tribune.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

[davet]

An article in today's "Elkhart Truth" stated that Steinway, not Conn Selmer made the bid. I'm not sure why they wanted to make that distinction, since I can't see how any effects would change, if it's the parent company that buys WWBW.

In addition, an opinion was offered that Conn Selmer really doesn't want to buy WWBW nor does it intend to end up buying it- they are just upping the ante so that the eventual buyer is in a worse $$$ position, which makes Conn Selmer relatively stronger.

I don't know whether any of this makes sense to regular people, or whether it's true for sure, but it adds some info. to the mix. More fodder for discussion, I guess.

Dave

[Chuck(G)]

In addition, an opinion was offered that Conn Selmer really doesn't want to buy WWBW nor does it intend to end up buying it- they are just upping the ante so that the eventual buyer is in a worse $$$ position, which makes Conn Selmer relatively stronger.

Stronger than what? I hadn't realized that Steinway's focus was a B&M storefront operation in retaling brass and woodwind instruments. I thought they were mostly a manufacturer.

[LoyalTubist]

Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom from consequence.

I am now living in a country which does not have freedom of speech. I am also a patriotic American who loves his country with all his heart. Scooby is right in his quote. One of the consequences of freedom of speech I never realized is the retribution that goes with it. I don't have to worry about what people will say (or do) to me.

Aside from not being able to get Miracle Whip or Pepto Bismol (or an antiperspirant that works), it's been great to get away from the noise.

[pulseczar]

it's been great to get away from the noise.

Last time I was in Saigon, it was noisy 24 hours a week. It also reeked of wood smoke, but I'd go back.

[Chuck(G)]

Last time I was in Saigon, it was noisy 24 hours a week. It also reeked of wood smoke, but I'd go back.

Hmm, 24 hours a week? That works out to less than 4 hours per day! A nice quiet city, as cities go.

[LoyalTubist]

Last time I was in Saigon, it was noisy 24 hours a week. It also reeked of wood smoke, but I'd go back.

Hmm, 24 hours a week? That works out to less than 4 hours per day! A nice quiet city, as cities go.

District 1 is really noisy. I live in District 2.

[Rick Denney]

' might depend of how much C-S merch. is there...possibly a strategy to avoid having some non-dealer end up with a lot of their product at prices below normal dealer cost.

I doubt it. Near as I can tell, WWBW never really sold much C-S stuff. None of the Conn or King tubas are on display there, for example.

But WWBW is the leading national mailorder company for band instruments, and as such it would be nice (from C-S's perspective) if they had C-S stuff in their catalog instead of similarly priced stuff from the competition. If that's the case, I would expect them to continue selling Rudy Meinl, the high-end Miraphones, the better VMI's, and other expensive instruments that C-S doesn't really compete with. But many of the cheaper brands might get priced a bit higher to ease them out of the lineup.

Of course, buying the competition (or buying the competition's distribution capability) is a time-honored competitive strategy, but one that is often not successful.

As to bidding it up with no intention of actually buying, that could easily be a $40 million mistake.

Rick "wondering how close the Elkhart Truth is to the Conn perspective" Denney

[davet]

Rick "wondering how close the Elkhart Truth is to the Conn perspective" Denney

Guess who founded the Elkhart Truth!!!!!!

Conn published his own newspaper called The Elkhart Truth (1889) when another local paper ran articles with which he disagreed. Anyhow, that's how I remember the story.

[windshieldbug]

As to bidding it up with no intention of actually buying, that could easily be a $40 million mistake

... as many bidders (actual and cyber) can attest!

[Chuck(G)]

Hmm. Conn-Selmer. Unsuccessful business strategy. Would any of be the least bit surprised?

Ah, but remember it's probably not the folks in Indiana calling the shots. C-S is a division of Steinway, which tends to have great strategic sense.

Conn-Selmer, Inc. is a subsidiary of Steinway Musical Instruments, Inc. (NYSE: LVB).

[rascaljim]

OK, so I swung by Brasswind on saturday on my way home from visiting the inlaws in ohio and I was shocked when I walked in the tuba room about how few horns were there. The tuba cabinets are still there but it was maybe 60% full and there were practically no other horns in the room. I was told this was because everything else was sold.

I asked if they were trying to liquidate their stock of horns and was told no. Either way, I stop by at least once or twice a year and I would say I remember them always having at least twice that many tubas available to play.

There was mostly miraphone 1291/2s (there were about 6 of them), a few other Bb's, a couple meinls, maybe 2 or 3 F's and an Eb or 2. That was about it.

I wonder if this is what we will be able to expect from now on... I hope not.
Jim Langenberg

[Chuck(G)]

No manufacturer in their right mind would sell to WWBW knowing that they will never get paid for the merchandise.

In fact, it's a pretty good deal to do business with a firm who's entered Chapter 11. They can't dodge any new debts they incur because they're under the supervision of the court which must approve all financial transactions.

The pre-bankruptcy debts are water under the bridge; creditors may or may not get something regardless of what happens today. But new sales are almost as good as gold.

WWBW has tremendous market visibility and it'd be just plain stupid not to sell to them.

I'm sure there are quite a few Chinese exporters who would be delighted to send a few containerloads of instruments over on the speculation that they'll be paid.

[windshieldbug]

Perhaps they're making room for their new inventory of guitars, if things go that way...

[iiipopes]

What Chuck(g) said. If I were a vendor, I'd love to do business with WWBW at this point, because everything they do at this point not only has to have court and bankruptcy trustee approval, but it is on a cash up front basis until the reorganization plan is put in place.

[Dan Schultz]

What Chuck(g) said. If I were a vendor, I'd love to do business with WWBW at this point, because everything they do at this point not only has to have court and bankruptcy trustee approval, but it is on a cash up front basis until the reorganization plan is put in place.

I don't know what laws apply because they vary from state-to-state. In Indiana, the old debts are usually negotiated... normally resulting in vendor payoffs as low as 10%. Any new debts are guaranteed only while a company is in chapter 11 (reorganization). Once bankrupcy is official (chapter 7), the company is officially out of business and all assets are auctioned. The company is then off to a 'new beginning'. At that point, all bets are off and it's business as usual... complete with all the chances of getting screwed again.

Those of us who are registered dealers with Conn-Selmer received a notification by email on December 29th inviting us to sit in on a conferrence call on Thursday, January 4th to explain how the C-S acquisition will benefit school music dealers by increasing sales and improving cash flow. I plan to 'listen in'. It might be interesting!

[Chuck(G)]

I don't know what laws apply because they vary from state-to-state. In Indiana, the old debts are usually negotiated... normally resulting in vendor payoffs as low as 10%. Any new debts are guaranteed only while a company is in chapter 11 (reorganization).

Precisely what I said. If you're, say, Jupiter, any losses from Chapter 11 reorganization are pretty much a done deed--you're screwed. But selling to a company in Chapter 11 is a good deal--cash on the barrelhead, all approved by the court. So there's no reason why Jupiter wouldn't want to sell to WWBW if the court authorized the sale.

A better thing is being a court trustee in a Chapter 7 proceeding. You usually get paid up front for any services you might render.

I've seen assets sort of "disappear" from a Chapter 7 bankrupty while under the supervision of a court-appointed trustee. Since it's the trustee's business to determine the assets of a business before liquidation, some things just never make it onto the list.

[SplatterTone]

If there is no reason (like some kind of anti-compete clause in the deal) why D. B. can't use his contacts and bidness experience to start elsewhere, I think Springfield, MO would be excellent. It is relatively close to me but out of sales tax range. A day touring something like WWBW AND the huge Grizzly tools store would be highly enjoyable. Although I'm not a Bass Pro guy, it's there too.

I imagine there are those on the forum who would think a trip like that is about as close to heaven as one can get while remaining in corporeal form.

[windshieldbug]

Why relocate the new GuitarWind!? Plenty of cold winter nights for strummin' up north!