The rebirth of a Holton 345 has started...

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:12 pm

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iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:09 pm

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Tubadork · Post by **Tubadork** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:13 pm

uhhhhhh?

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:05 pm

Rick Denney wrote: I doubt that doing most of the things being contemplated would have any effect on how well the instrument plays. What makes a great Holton great is its liveliness, and I think that's a function of zero-stress assembly. Only a few achieved that. Thus, I think it's possible for a Holton bowser to become great when restored by a master, but I don't think it's likely a master's work will turn a great Holton into a bowser.

We can join the bare-knucklers now.

I understand why you think zero-stress assembly is a factor in "liveliness" but the truth is, no one really knows. I rather think it's a combination of factors. I bet the reassembly of the instruments will involve a lot less stress than the factory applied.

Surely, you would agree that a sealed solder joint is going to contribute to the quality of the instrument. The chances of that happening with one of the tubas under discussion is better than at the factory.

I was also highly impressed with Dan's reconstruction of the pistons and believe that this can only improve these tubas' performance.

BTW, I had a fine 345. Not as good as Jake's but he was very pleased with the horn and I think you would have referred to it as a lively tuba. When I unsoldered the first valve tubing from a brace, the "sproing" was so pronounced that it threw solder all over the place.

I would certainly like to play the 345 that I used to own when Dan is through with it. (hint)

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:24 pm

ASTuba wrote:
ASTuba wrote: Are you in NAPBIRT???

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:Thought about it, discussed it with others but could not see any truly viable reason for doing so. Its a good ''club'' that offers a lot to those who have limited resources for information or a lack of training. For me, the Technicom four times a year and partisipation in a yearly get-together somewhere in the mid-west far away from Seattle is not much of an incentive for me to participate. I know how to repair woodwinds and have trained many others, I know how to solder, perform dent work, repair valves and hand slides, polish/buff, engrave, machining, plating, run a business.......... Maybe someday?
And this is where I take total offense to what you said. You are a member of the American Electroplaters and Surface Finishers Society, Inc, as you were involved in that industry correct?

Then why, as a person who owns a Band Instrument Repair Shop, wouldn't you be a member of the National Association of Professional Band Instrument Repair Technicians?

I know how to do most of the functions that allow me to be a successful and profitable repair technician, but I always strive to be the best I can be. That's why I'm a member of NAPBIRT, and I go to conferences to learn from people like Wayne Tanabe, and other truly great technicians. There are many different ways to do the same task, and if I can learn a faster, easier, better way, then I'm foolish not to listen. That way, I can make more money.

FYI.... NAPBIRT Member Websites

Oberloh Woodwind & Brassworks is listed, so Dan must have been a member at one time another. Either way they must respect him since they list him?

Can we get back to talking about Holtons and not argue over repair philosophy and support group membership.

ASTuba · Post by **ASTuba** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:42 pm

I'll stop discussing this Dave, I apologize if this got out of control.

trseaman · Post by **trseaman** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:06 pm

ASTuba wrote:I'll stop arguing

Not arguing, just sharing your thoughts and opinions...

Doc wrote:This is the only support group of which I am a member:

Cheers!

And yes... What about those Holtons???

Tim

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:21 pm

ASTuba wrote:I'll stop discussing this Dave, I apologize if this got out of control.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to you to go away. Your opinion is valuable. I just want to keep this thread on topic. This thread is getting really long, 13 pages now, and it will be getting much longer before I get my Holton back. I don't want it to get too cluttered up with unrelated discussions or run the risk of having it locked. I have seen many topics on this forum go totally astray and never recover. I am just trying to protect this thread for future discussion. Thanks.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:50 pm

Bandmaster wrote:
ASTuba wrote:I'll stop discussing this Dave, I apologize if this got out of control.
I am just trying to protect this thread for future discussion. Thanks.

Good luck!

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:18 pm

Doc wrote: So Dave...or Dan...

This may have been answered, and I simply missed it, but do you have any idea how much longer the process will take?

Dan says that depends on how often he get interupted by business walking in the front door, which happens a lot (unfortunately for me). Tuba restorations are done in "spare" time. It has already taken a lot longer than expected.

And it doesn't help with Harold dragging another project horn in the door every couple of weeks.

(Just kidding Harold)But it now shouldn't be too much longer, "most" of the hard work has been done.

Doc wrote: Another question that I may have missed:
Do you intend on it being bright silver or satin silver? Satin with bright trim? Gold trim? Sorry if I missed that also.

You're right... I never mentioned that did I? Bright silver is my hope. Satin if the surface won't clean up good enough, but with the copper plating he has done and the new bell, I don't think it will be problem anymore. Plus I hate polishing satin silver! Been there and done that way too many times. And no fancy gold trim for me. I can't wear gold plated jewelry, my sweat just eats it away. So fancy gold trim won't last with me handling it regularly. I have to be really carefull with my gold Conn 38K and wipe it off after I play it, which isn't that often compared to my regular horn.

BTW, no fifth valve to add on either. It's a BBb not a CC, so there is no real need for it. But I did think about it for a while and talk it over with Dan. He doesn't see a need for it either.

bort · Post by **bort** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:35 pm

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:I have work to do, lots of work to do.

And that's the bottom line.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm

Hey Guys,
I was visiting the platers this afternoon. Got back to the shop to find the power out again but our trusty Linemen at Puget Power got us up and running after about an hour without service.

Anyway, Both Mike (plater) and I were very pleased with how the bows are turning out. This week they were sanded and some fitting adjustments made. I left them once again in mikes skilled hands today for one more round in the acid copper. 160 minutes of plating time and they should be ready for final sanding and the body will be ready to start assembly. Once the body is together, I will turn my attention to completing the valve assembly and then to the construction of a new mouthpipe. The plan is to finish it in bright silver. I will not be "tarting" it up with gold trim. I call that "the cat house special":lol: There will be a delay in between so I can focus on the completion of Dale's and getting his 345 off to plate first. Sorry Dave.

Daniel C. Oberloh

Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Saving the world, one horn at a time...

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:30 pm

Doc wrote:I'm sure there are Holton owners quietly following this thread. If there are any of you that live anywhere remotely close to south or central Texas that have a Holton, please let me know. In fact, if you are an owner of one of these big Holtons from anywhere, I'd like to hear from you. I have always wanted to spend some time with a 345, especially one of these "lively" ones.

I've got two guest bedrooms and another seat in the car. Get a cheap fare to the Army Conference. Then you can play mine, and a lot more besides.

Rick "who will have the Holton at the reading sessions" Denney

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:40 pm

Rick Denney wrote:Then you can play mine, and a lot more besides.

C'mon Rick, we all know Doc isn't that kind of guy

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:42 pm

Alex C wrote:I would certainly like to play the 345 that I used to own when Dan is through with it. (hint)

So would I.

You're right. There's got to be much more to it than that. But none of the other factors seem to me related to things a good repair tech is likely to change. It will still have the same taper design and the same little characteristic design quirks. The pinch in the knuckle for the third valve is an example of a quirk that looks wrong, but probably ought not be changed. It should have the same leadpipe design, too.

Some Holtons have typical Holton intonation, meaning that the third partial is flat, etc. Actually, this is common for all the big tubas in my experience. That seems to me a taper design variation. Some just seem to suck the air out of you rather than making the most of the air you give them, and I wish I knew all of what contributed to that.

I'm not sure that stress in the valve body is as much an issue as stress in the outer branches. I'm also not sure whether the difference it makes is heard out front, rather than just felt in the hands and face. I am sure that my Holton is wonderfully responsive, though that doesn't mean it forgives insufficient air.

My main point, though, was that I don't think there's anything a master technician can do to screw up a great Holton during a restoration, unless he tries to redesign it to make it "better". But they didn't all have the same taper coming off the line, as your story demonstrates. Maybe a great technician can correct the problems that make some Holtons bowsers, and maybe not.

Rick "who should have qualified what he said" Denney

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:51 pm

No argument from me joe. I love the old horns and that look but for some reason the modern instruments just look overly pimped up. Maybe its just me I guess.

Best regards,

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle, WA
206.241.5767
www.oberloh.com

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:32 pm

Adam Peck wrote:It's not just you Dan. I also think that many older horns look lovely in silver with gold trim, but some of the newer horns should be featured on " Pimp My Axe".

Heeyyy,
I should get a call into the folks at MTV. That could be a new show. I could make millio......... I should get back to work.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle, WA
206.241.5767
www.oberloh.com

tofu · Post by **tofu** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:02 am

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:53 pm

Daves 345 has not been forgotton. I have just been up to my neck in other projects that are more pressing. Because I am doing a lot ''Big guns" I managed to slip the project in and spend some time on Daves bows.

Just a refresher.

Today I completed shaping and fitting the new replacement bow cap I made out of heavy nickelsilver sheet.

All that remains to be done to the large bows is the install of new guard wires and the sub-assemblies will be completed and ready for the rest of the instrument to be put together.

Daniel C. Oberloh

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:15 pm

Thanks Dan, you just made my day!

TubeNet

The rebirth of a Holton 345 has started...

Let's get back on topic....