new 4 valve sousaphones for HS band

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:44 pm

O my god I really wish we could get some 4 valve sousas at my school we are still runnin' some original Conn prototype sousaphones held together with electrical tape and a prayer. The silvers are slowly falling apart.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:28 pm

In my not-so-humble opinion, as the Dynasty is obviously a Conn copy, you might look into the cost of rebuilding the Conns. They have more metal, better workmanship, and will last longer in the long run, even rebuilt, than anything new. If you want shine, it's an easy matter to order new bells only.

The Conn Cavalier souzy I play is over seventy years old, and has a better tone than any I've seen or played in the last thirty years since I started marching as a freshman in high school with a 1st generation King fiberglass souzy.

The university here in town where I play in the community band just got all new Jupiter souzys and retired their old King silver 1250's. The new Jupiters literally were trying to dent under their own weight as I picked one up to try it out. I played one of their old ones for awhile, and the only thing it needed was a good buffing out and minor mechanical tweaks here and there. Part of the problem is this series of souzys uses two distinct bits, so if you get the bits backwards you risk leaks or losing intonation or both.

Finally, a 25 mouthpiece is small for a tuba. It's a beginner's size mouthpiece for middle schoolers and people with very small jawbone structure. It's almost as small as a bass trombone mouthpiece, @ 1.2" or 30.5 mm cup diameter, only a bit bigger than a Schilke 60. It will be a copy of the Bach. For souzys, Bach 18's or a reasonable facsimile thereof as by Blessing, Faxx, WWBW, etc., or the shallower of the two Conn mouthpieces currently made, or best of all Kelly 18's in your school color, are the way to go.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:00 pm

richland tuba 01 wrote:... I'm sure after a marching season they'll be "broken in" if you know what I mean. ...

No.... I don't think everyone knows what you mean. Are you thinking maybe some fool will throw his sousa down on the field?... or maybe use the mouthpiece on the bell for some sort of noisemaker at a pep ralley?... or maybe the necks will be lost?...

Exactly what do you mean?

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:35 pm

richland tuba 01 wrote:I have a blue kelly 18, but my band director won't let me use it because he says it will damage my embrouchre(sp?)

What a crock of BS. If it's a good mouthpiece, and you're used to playing an 18 anyway, use it! Granted, the sound for concert purposes may not be exactly great, a bit fuzzy maybe? but, for marching, there's absolutely no reason.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:39 pm

eupher61 wrote:
richland tuba 01 wrote:I have a blue kelly 18, but my band director won't let me use it because he says it will damage my embrouchre(sp?)
What a crock of BS.

Agreed. In fact, I would think any smart band director would issue plastic mouthpieces as it would certainly be more difficult for a kid to damage the bell of a sousa with a Kelly!

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:51 pm

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:23 pm

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:36 pm

I will agree with Klaus: Three valves are sufficient for marching sousaphones. My left shoulder took many years to recover from sousaphone playing!

The two notes each for the 13 and 123 valve combinations are readily lipped down into tune.

Later on in life, the sousaphone players can switch to tubas with more valves, and even -- gasp -- learn about alternate fingerings and slide pulling.

Cheers,
Allen

DaTubaKid · Post by **DaTubaKid** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:15 pm

Don't leave any rubber bands in the case while the instruments are being stored in the off-season. Apparently that has negative effects to the silver plating

. Well, at least it did the 3-valve Yammies we got my sophomore year in high school. I never knew how those rubber bands managed to get in there anyways...

I've never gotten to play a 4 valve sousie, we had had 3-valvers at my high school. I was the sousaphone in my marching band, so I had the tendency to blow those sharp 1+3 and 1+2+3 valve combinations flat in my attempts to support the ensemble. I still believe the only people I could hear in recordings of us on the field were myself and my trumpet playing friend...

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:06 am

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:11 am

richland tuba 01 wrote:we have 2 tuba players(not me!) that every time anyone says "run-through", even if they're not about to do a run-through, they punch the back parts of eachother's bells as hard as they can, so they can have a dent for every run-through. Maybe these new tubas will convince them to stop. they're not bad players either.

I could never and will never understand why willful destruction of public property seems to be so prevalent and acceptable to so many people involved in music programs. These two clowns should not only be given the bill for these horns overhauls they should have the PRIVILEGE of using school owned horns revoked. I at the very least would fine two of the oldest fibreglass slugs I could find, perhaps even find a way to ballast them and give them a choice, play these or find your own, you have obviously proven that you are not responsible enough for your age. ( I am refering to them, not you.)

I never forgot that I was very lucky when going through school that even though my folks could not afford to purchase a horn for me, I had horns available to me. In my sophmore year, we had all of our Reynolds & Holton tubas rebuilt. (The before and after was truly amazing) In the three years that I played them, I put one dent in one the size of a dime. That is also when I developed my fondness for the Reynolds Contemproa horns. (I love my Contempora Sousaphones) The salesman from the rebuilding outfit came back late in my senior year to look for work. My director took him down to the band room to show him the horns, and he just about fell over, he exclaimed, " I have never seen horns look like that after three years in High School work". They still looked like new. The Giant Holton did have one fairly large dent in the bottom bow, 1" X 2", but that was it.

Steve

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:19 pm

richland tuba 01 wrote:we have 2 tuba players(not me!) that every time anyone says "run-through", even if they're not about to do a run-through, they punch the back parts of eachother's bells as hard as they can, so they can have a dent for every run-through. Maybe these new tubas will convince them to stop. they're not bad players either.

Perhaps every time someone says "dent" they should have their heads smacked hard enough to cause one there. Then they might stop. Or not. But one way or another, the number of dents on the horns will stop increasing...

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:42 pm

richland tuba 01 wrote:we have 2 tuba players(not me!) that every time anyone says "run-through", even if they're not about to do a run-through, they punch the back parts of eachother's bells as hard as they can, so they can have a dent for every run-through. Maybe these new tubas will convince them to stop. they're not bad players either.

If you see this type of activity and fail to report it to the proper authorities, then I would consider you just as guilty as the morons doing it. You CAN make a difference.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:47 pm

richland tuba 01 wrote:we have 2 tuba players(not me!) that every time anyone says "run-through", even if they're not about to do a run-through, they punch the back parts of eachother's bells as hard as they can, so they can have a dent for every run-through. Maybe these new tubas will convince them to stop. they're not bad players either.

Then again, sounds to me like 2 players will be responsible for replacing 2 bells before they are "allowed" to graduate

(or return, or pass go, or not get arrested for willful detruction of public property... )

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:27 pm

I have posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating:

Hey Rich: as far as difference in tone between a Kelly 18 and a "real" Bach 18, please tell your band director that I play for a community band that has a sizeable contingent of current/retired band directors. I played both "blind" and asked for their input. Over a century's worth of directing experience and countless decades of performing experience could not tell the difference.

I play a Kelly 18, also blue, exclusively outdoors. When, in a weak moment, I actually allow myself to play outdoors at this point, usually only for a patriotic observance or charitible event, I WILL NOT subject my lips to freezing and burning. Tell your director it's a health and safety issue, because there sure as hell isn't any difference in sound. But let me tell you how I really feel....

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Tell your band director to put those shiny new souzys on a bus instead of requesting FEDEX. Otherwise, they're likely to arrive 'pre-dented'.

tubadaddy92 · Post by **tubadaddy92** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:17 pm

our school got new 4 valve jupiter sousaphones this year and i dont know if its just ours but they dont play well at all. the best thing we have found on them is the low register.

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:36 pm

tubadaddy92 wrote:our school got new 4 valve jupiter sousaphones this year and i dont know if its just ours but they dont play well at all. the best thing we have found on them is the low register.

Well, maybe they are...

Our Jupiter Sousaphones have only 3 valves, and play better than our Yamaha YBB-321's. So, I guess that Jupiter is inconsistent...

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:44 pm

tubaguy9 wrote:
tubadaddy92 wrote:our school got new 4 valve jupiter sousaphones this year and i dont know if its just ours but they dont play well at all. the best thing we have found on them is the low register.
Well, maybe they are... Our Jupiter Sousaphones have only 3 valves, and play better than our Yamaha YBB-321's. So, I guess that Jupiter is inconsistent...

Huh?

DaTubaKid · Post by **DaTubaKid** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:29 pm

TubaTinker wrote:
tubaguy9 wrote:
tubadaddy92 wrote:our school got new 4 valve jupiter sousaphones this year and i dont know if its just ours but they dont play well at all. the best thing we have found on them is the low register.
Well, maybe they are... Our Jupiter Sousaphones have only 3 valves, and play better than our Yamaha YBB-321's. So, I guess that Jupiter is inconsistent...
Huh?

He never said what was bad about the Jupiter 4 valvers...just that they had a good low range...I wouldn't pass any judgements on that statement alone, cuz a horn with a good low register is fine with me!