copyright question

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:09 pm

Would the trombone solo Morceau Symphonique be considered public domain? The composer, Alexandre Guilmont's dates are 1837-1911, so I would figure it would have to be PD.

But, (there is always a but isn't there?) an old copy of it that I have has a copyright date on it of 1937 (assuming I have my Roman numerals correct - MCMXXXVII).

ken k

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:12 pm

Well, it's not quite as easy as merely the dates of the composer, IF someone else has editions of the piece. You can go back to an absolute original edition and should be OK, but it has to be one from the composer's original edition (aka Urtext, if you will.)

That's simplified, but essentially that's the fact. I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, and this isn't necessarily legal advice.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:27 pm

I'm not inclined to go research the fine details of copyright, but one of the main factors is when the composer originally got the copyright (or when it was published, or something like that). For example, Variations on America by Charles Ives was written far back enough to easily qualify for public domain. Except it sat around uncopywrit and unpublished for a long time, so (last I heard) it isn't public domain.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:37 am

Yeah, that was the old law--copyright dates from publication, not creation. I don't believe that it's the case currently (but am not sure). Take Gershwin's "Lillaby" as an extreme example--written in 1917, but not published until after his death in 1963. Will be under coypright until 2050-something (I won't be around to witness the passing into PD).

In the case of the Morceau, one needn't cite the urtext from 1892 (I looked it up). Any edition published before 1923 is fair game. That 1937 edition might be fiar game, depending on where it was published and if the copyright was ever renewed. Since that's very difficult to find out, you're best off looking for an older copy.

Hey! "Edit" is back!

BVD Press · Post by **BVD Press** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:43 am

To follow up on Chuck's post, to be safe find a version that has a copyright date before 1923 and you are set to roll with a new version!

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:59 pm

This might have absolutely no relevance and sounds absolutely retarded but Just to comment, I have searched absolutely every inch of my copy of Morceau, and have yet to find any copyright information on it.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:08 pm

XtremeEuph wrote:This might have absolutely no relevance and sounds absolutely retarded but Just to comment, I have searched absolutely every inch of my copy of Morceau, and have yet to find any copyright information on it.

Doesn't mean a thing. Works written since 1978 are assumed to be copyrighted unless stated otherwise. A copyright notice is not required, but is nice to have.

Perhaps your copy is out of a collection?

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:57 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:
XtremeEuph wrote:This might have absolutely no relevance and sounds absolutely retarded but Just to comment, I have searched absolutely every inch of my copy of Morceau, and have yet to find any copyright information on it.
Doesn't mean a thing. Works written since 1978 are assumed to be copyrighted unless stated otherwise. A copyright notice is not required, but is nice to have.

Perhaps your copy is out of a collection?

yeah its some special edition or something, darn was hoping id be able to double it lol.

Dennis K. · Post by **Dennis K.** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:32 am

SplatterTone wrote:I'm not inclined to go research the fine details of copyright, but one of the main factors is when the composer originally got the copyright (or when it was published, or something like that). For example, Variations on America by Charles Ives was written far back enough to easily qualify for public domain. Except it sat around uncopywrit and unpublished for a long time, so (last I heard) it isn't public domain.

Currently, a piece obtains copyright as soon as it is set in a fixed form - regardless of format. That goes for recordings digital formats as well as printed music.

Publication has very little bearing on copyright. Unless the piece is composed specifically as a "Work Made for Hire" (which will be spelled out in the contract), the composer owns the copyright when it is set on paper or in Finale, or his improv is recorded. Then, he assigns the copyright to a publisher, usually with a rather specific contract. What the publisher produces is also covered by copyright.

Dennis (who is not a lawyer, but has dealt w/ this stuff) K.