Kellyberg Mouthpieces - Updated: 03-24-04

[TubaTodd]

Thank you to all who have posted to this thread. I can't wait for my "Crystal Red" Kellyberg to arrive. Is there anything that can be done to reduce the friction between the mouthpiece and skin? Would a spray lacquer (or something else) give a slippery surface?

Question for fellow educators: Would you feel comfortable having your students play on Kellyberg mouthpieces?

My wife teaches at a Christian school here in Alabama and all of the local stores want too much money for mouthpieces. So, she has decided to place orders through Hickey's Music in Ithaca, NY (where I used to work). She has saved quite a bit on trombone and saxophone stuff. In any event, do educators feel that these Kellyberg mouthpieces would be suitable to beginning brass students. It's a little easier to tell a student (and/or their parents) that they need to buy a mouthpiece when it costs them $28 rather than $40.

[MaryAnn]

>What makes a bigger difference than dimensions is the grippiness of the Lexan. Goldplated mouthpieces feel pretty "wet" and slippery; silverplated ones give more stability; Lexan doesn't let your face move around much at all. That alone will have a pretty large effect on how you'd play.

one thing you can do to change the grippiness is to coat the rim with nail polish; it is sort of halfway between silver and gold in feel..but not as "hard" as either. It might solve the super-grippy problems.

MA
PS: instead of just clicking on your post and answering it, I had to 1) log in, and 2) somehow go back and find this post, which took me about 12 times as long as the old format.

[TubaTodd]

Nail polish sounds like a good idea, however isn't that stuff toxic? I told my wife about the idea and she was a little concerned. Is there something that can be used that is less toxic (perhaps organic) or something that might be more permenent? My wife's concern was that nail polish flakes off and and could be be ingested.

[Chuck(G)]

Nail polish sounds like a good idea, however isn't that stuff toxic?

AFAIK, the agent in plain old clear nail polish is nothing more than nitrocellulose lacquer. While the solvent used to keep it liquid has some toxicity, it's gone pretty quickly once the stuff dries.

Think of all of the people who use nail polish and bite their nails. If there were a problem with toxicity, it'd get noticed pretty quickly.

[big_blue_tubist]

Leland or anyone else using these mouthpieces, have you noticed any rattling between the mouthpiece and leadpipe when going for lower notes (starts for me at Bb below the stave on my Besson982) I assume this is a difference between the metal and plastic versions!

By the way, if anyone is wondering - these mouthpieces are great for the heat as well! I still use the metal for any sitdown stuff we do, however.

Simon

Good, I was starting to wonder if that rattling sound was just me. I have my Kellyberg plugged into a Conn 14K, and for every note that doesn't have any spread in it, it's just fine, but BBb and below, it makes an awful lot of noise for my taste. Hopefully someone can enlighten us on why the clack!

[Leland]

So,

It seems like what we're all looking for is something with the surface-to-skin friction of silver or gold, with proper dimensions, good sound, and weather- & ding-proof.

A different plastic could fix the friction problem. Redistribution of mass might help with sound quality. Dimensions, hopefully, could be done more accurately and in more sizes than just three. The temperature & durability are already proven.

I think a good, full-time-use all-plastic mouthpiece is possible. These are pretty close, but there's still room to improve.

[Jeffrey Hicks]

Why not something like a good polyurethane like they make Skateboard wheels out of? This is just an idea...I know nothing about plastics...

[Leland]

When this topic popped up on TubeNet I back in January or so, somebody mentioned that they knew of a guy who's been working on a plastic mouthpiece compound based on a polyethylene, which was supposed to be as slippery as conventional finishes.

I don't know much about plastics either, but polyethylene interests me because of its use in kiteflying.

Stunt kites -- the ones with two or more lines -- have been using a kiteline fiber usually called Spectra, which is a spun-bonded polyethylene. The manufacturing process does as much as possible to align the fibers in the same direction, which reduces friction, especially considering the structure of polyethylene (explained below). Braided Spectra can be rated at 500 lbs. tensile strength while only being a millimeter or so thick, yet has about 4% stretch (nylon has about 30% stretch). And, yes, it's the same stuff that some fishing lines are made of, usually from Spiderwire or other brands. The best part for stunt kites is that it's really slippery -- a pair of Spectra kite lines can be wrapped around each other with minimal loss of control due to friction. Dacron and Kevlar lines were made obsolete for stunt flying because they were just too rough.

At some point, I had a chemistry reference book, and looked up some polymers. Polyethylene's molecular structure was really different from anything else -- it's basically a straight chain of hydrocarbon sections. Say that you took a bunch of ruler-sized blades of graphite (itself a flat atomic structure) and bundled them together. The bundle would be pretty strong, quite stiff, yet would not have much friction against another graphite bundle.

"YEAH, OKAY, GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!"

Polyethylene would make sense as a structurally sound, low friction plastic. Teflon can still be scarred, while Lexan & nylon are too grippy for most.

I'll be eager to try one of the polyethylene mouthpieces if they ever come to market.

[TubaTodd]

The 3 Kellyberg mouthpieces have arrived. I ordered 1 crystal blue Trumpet 3C (for teaching), 1 crystal red Trombone 6.5AL (for teaching), and 1 crystal red Tuba Helleberg (for me! ).

Upon openning the boxes I smiled. They look so cool!!! My next surprise was their weight. I was expecting the usual mass of a metal mouthpiece. WRONG...they are really light. I dove into the Helleberg packaging and started buzzing. WOW, it seems very "live" and resonant. After buzzing on the mouthpiece for a little while, I tried it with my tuba. WOW, what a sound. It is so similar to my Conn Helleberg that I didn't need to adjust.

About the material: From what I have read from other people in this thread, I was expecting a very "grippy" plastic, but I was surprised that it wasn't too bad. Yes, it is grippier than metal, but it won't bother me.

All I can say is...I want to buy more colors. I will be showing these mouthpieces to my students on Friday. They are going to FLIP OUT!!

[GC]

I find that my Kellyburg is very easy on the lip for warming up or for having to jump into playing without sufficient warmup. If I'm getting tired, it's easy to get a good sound without as much stress as playing my larger RM 10. The only thing that I don't like about the KB is that I can't produce high volume levels as easily as with a metal mouthpiece. If I'm the only tuba at a rehearsal, I have to stick with the RM 10 or Bach 12. If there are other players there, I'll use the Kellyburg most of the time.

[iiipopes]

The Kellyberg is just the slightest bit larger in inner rim or cup diameter. As far as the 18 goes, I just got my second one to make into a small shank -- I'll post later how that goes -- and I can tell you it is identical to a Bach 18, as I also have one of those.

I would imagine the 24AW and the 25 are the same way -- pretty much identical to their namesakes.

Hey, Whitney: just wrap a small circle of golfer's lead tape around the shank where it meets the bowl to damp any spurious vibrations. I think your feel and feedback that you're used to on a conventional mouthpiece will return. It did for me.

[Captain Sousie]

And why are we answering two year old questions tonight, boys?

In the words of a few great mountaineers..."because it's there".

[tubatooter1940]

I am glad this thread was revived. My Kelly is sticky-especially late in a four hour gig-when all skin oils have been replaced by condensation and beer. A Kelly may protect me from allergies to brass but it wears on my lips over four hours. The zits I now get may be from abrasion.
That last set, my lips feel like they need a break from the mouthpiece. I swell the next morning and grow 2-5 zits by bedtime.
My Kelly changed my sound out of the bell very little. It sounds different but nice.
I googled Kelly and talked to a gentleman on the phone who could have been Mr. Kelly He recommended a 24AW to replace my Schilke 66 and he was right. I keep my gold Schilke handy should harm befall my Kelly but the Schilke 66 no longer can cut it down in low range.

[MaryAnn]

well...between sets you could try rubbing a little vitamin E (from a capsule you break open) on your lips, to replace the oil. And wash the beer off the mouthpiece....

No four-hour gigs for this kid, ever again. That's why I slave away in the cubicle, to get enough $$ to retire. My butt takes some punishment from sitting in a chair all day, but my face is intact.

My hearing, however, already suffers the consequence of a rock band, a motorcycle helmet at speed (wind noise) and playing in a brass section. Huh? Whazzat you said? Why don't you E*N*U*N*C*I*A*T*E ????

MA

[prototypedenNIS]

I love my kellyburg, so did one of the former tubists here at BU. 2 new tubists in the Symphonic Band here are getting some off an order right away.

[tubatooter1940]

I am glad this thread was revived. My Kelly is sticky-especially late in a four hour gig-when all skin oils have been replaced by condensation and beer. A Kelly may protect me from allergies to brass but it wears on my lips over four hours. The zits I now get may be from abrasion.
That last set, my lips feel like they need a break from the mouthpiece. I swell the next morning and grow 2-5 zits by bedtime.
My Kelly changed my sound out of the bell very little. It sounds different but nice.
I googled Kelly and talked to a gentleman on the phone who could have been Mr. Kelly He recommended a 24AW to replace my Schilke 66 and he was right. I keep my gold Schilke handy should harm befall my Kelly but the Schilke 66 no longer can cut it down in low range.

If you are having irritation problems with the Kellyberg after long sets you might want to look into stainless steel mpcs. , as they are very smooth and cause much less irritation than silver plated brass (not sure about Lexan). I (just like you) used to have problems with silver plated mouthpieces causing zits after long playing sessions. But, I have not had that problem since switching to stainless.

Thank you, sir, for your response.
You have nailed it. I agree that's the next reasonable thing to do.
I resolve to contact Paul Sidey (haven't seen enough of his helpful, informative posts lately) before my head hits the pillow tonight. I am going to see if he can hook me up with a stainless 24AW.
Thanks also to Ms. Mary Ann.

[runelk]

A number of brass players in the Ceremonial Brass, a unit of the USAF Band, Washington, DC. are playing on Kelly mouthpieces at Arlington National cemetery. I just got mine and have nothing but good things to say about my Kellyberg.

Albert Islas, Tubist
USAF Band, Ceremonial Brass
Washington, DC

[Leland]

I would be surprised if Lexan caused an allergic reaction in anyone, but I agree that it grips the face more and can cause a physical reaction of some kind.

In cold weather performances, in terms of how cold it "feels", I prefer plastic over anything else. Titanium comes very close as a material choice. If its subjective temperature properties were compared on a 1 to 10 scale, 1 being plated brass and 10 being Lexan, I'd put titanium at about a 7.

But, I do feel that Lexan can cause too much friction on the face, especially over long playing periods. It's better than the usual white nylon mouthpieces, though.

And, while playing a New Orleans-style funeral yesterday in temperatures in the 30's (not counting the wind chill), I was more than happy to use the Kellyberg.

[lgb&dtuba]

I've not really noticed a friction problem with my Kellyberg. Probably because I have a beard and moustache. I use Kelly mouthpieces on all my horns if it's an outside gig and cold.