paying for a horn

[Casey Tucker]

how do you pay for your horn? i mean, not in a litteral sense of currency. i mean your methods of typical payment. i have a PT-20PS that im very comfortable with (but am really thinking about selling it to buy the MW 2157. any takers? ) and now im to the point where i need an F tuba. one of my peers reccomended taking out a student loan. would anyone else second that? my parents have already said they would cover up to half of the horn, and if i got a job along with gigs i could have the money by march. but then i settle for used and i have to wait. im impatient. i'd like the horn now. what's your advice?

-casey

[WoodSheddin]

how do you pay for your horn? i mean, not in a litteral sense of currency. i mean your methods of typical payment. i have a PT-20PS that im very comfortable with (but am really thinking about selling it to buy the MW 2157. any takers? ) and now im to the point where i need an F tuba. one of my peers reccomended taking out a student loan. would anyone else second that? my parents have already said they would cover up to half of the horn, and if i got a job along with gigs i could have the money by march. but then i settle for used and i have to wait. im impatient. i'd like the horn now. what's your advice?

-casey

i used student loans for my first horn.

[JustinLerma]

Casey,
Dude I attempted the student loan thing but I didn't go through with it. If you can get the money then wait for it. The last thing you are going to want to do is pay back student loans.

[Dean]

Max out $65,000 in loans.



Then join the Army--they'll pay it all off!


So, the Army paid for my horn.

[Dean E]

Loans can work, but cash is always best. Only you know if you have the ability to pay back loans. You have to make that decision.

And...

but then i settle for used

Settle for new, huh? What kind of crap is that? Settle? Gimme a break here. Bright and shiny (new) doesn't mean ****, my friend, except that it will be bright and shiny. woohoo That doesn't guarantee your pretty little hunk of brass is worth a damn. Put yourself in a position to buy new or used, then pick the horn that plays the best. Anything else is moronic and ill-conceived.

Doc

Great advice, Doc.

Think of buying a tuba the same way you think of buying a car or other vehicle. Who buys a new, top-of-the model line car without years of work and savings?

BTW, having a maxed out student loan will kill a FICO score, a portion of which is based on the ratio of used credit to available credit. The lower the FICO score, the more interest that lenders charge for credit.

I recommend paying cash on a horn that will not lose value by depreciation. That's how I choose a car.

[Casey Tucker]

great advice guys. i know i said settle and i'm catching crap for it now. personally, i think that if you go with a use horn you have a better chance of finding one that plays well. it's my experience that some F's are a little inconsistent so having somebody give valualbe input w/ exp helps. but again, thank you very much for the advice. i'll be mulling over my options.

[Alex F]

Some vendors will offer a "12 month no interest" deal to help you pay for a horn. This usually involves qualifying for a credit card and then paying the horn off within 12 months. Giardinelli, Kessler Music, Pro Winds and some others offer this - WWBW used to (through Wells Fargo) but may have suspended it pending the re-organization. It's worth looking into.

CAUTION: If approved for such a deal, you must, without fail, pay the minium due on time each month and pay of the full amount before the time period is up. Should you fail to do either, you are liable for all interest dating back to the date of sale, usually at 22% APR. This is a good way to get an instrument with no finance charges if you are disciplined.

The problem, of course, is that a vendor offering this type of financing may not carry the horn youwant.

[Tom]

My parents have already said they would cover up to half of the horn, and if i got a job along with gigs i could have the money by March. but then i settle for used and i have to wait. I'm impatient. I'd like the horn now. what's your advice?

-casey

I would:

Be Patient, Work, Save until money is a non-issue in your search, Pay Cash.

I know that others might see things a little different, but I would never consider taking out a loan or using a credit card to "float" the purchase of a tuba. It's just a tuba. It is my opinion that (with the obvious exception of a house which most people make mortgage payments on) if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. A harsh thing to say? No. Brutally honest, yes.


Other bits of information for tuba buyers to consider:

-Going into debt over a tuba is (in my opinion) foolish.

-A "regular" loan will not be interest free. In other words, you'll end up paying more in the end for not paying for it all up front.

-Are you really going to want to have an extra $5-$10k tacked on to your student loans (that you have to start paying off as soon as you are out of school) for a tuba?

-Be wary of credit cards. "0% interest" might be appealing, but many cards have "hidden" fees that you really need to check for. Check for annual fees too. This can work if you know exactly what you are getting into and are disciplined, but it's definitely not the route that I would take (which is obviously to pay cash ).

[oldbandnerd]

Payed cash for every horn I ever bought . Saved until I had the money .
I've owned only one new horn . I agree with Doc . New and shiny just means new and shiny . My current horn is very old and just kinda shiny . I wouldn't trade for it anything .

[sinfonian]

An additional option not mentioned is a 401K loan. If you work in corporate America and have a 401K account you might be able to get a real low rate loan on your 401K account.

The way it works at my company is that you can take a loan out for up to 50% of the balance of your account. You pay a fix rate of prime at the time you take out the loan. There is a $50 setup fee added to the loan amount. You pick the term from 12 to 60 months. All interest is paid back to your 401K account as the investment for that balance. The loan with simple interest is deducted from each pay check. In affect you are investing part of your 401K account in your tuba.

This is not for everyone (the closer you are to retirement the less likely that this should be for you) but is just one option that might work for you. It worked for me on the purchase of my Miraphone 188.

[WoodSheddin]

-Going into debt over a tuba is (in my opinion) foolish.

I bought my first horn with student loans.

My only other option was to graduate college with a degree in performance and no horn to perform or practice on to try to win a job.

Paying back student loans does indeed suck, but the alternative is way worse.

Not all loans are bad if managed properly and you don't overdo it. I did not take $10,000 and buy a Harley with it. I bought the most important piece of equipment a tubist requires.

Student loans, mortgages, small business loans, etc are "good debt" when managed. These are investments in your future which should have good returns both financially and in quality of life.

[iiipopes]

I saved my money the old fashioned way, a few dollars at a time while supporting a family, looked really hard to find a bargain at my price point and the kind of instrument I wanted, and brought my Besson home off eBay for $411 including shipping. It looks like hell, plays like heaven. I can usually scrounge a bit of cash here and there out of the budget over time, so I am able to take care of some elective dents and a few cosmetics along the way. The leadpipe is open, the valves are tight, and intonation is nearly perfect. It has the couple of usual slightly stuffy notes any compensator has, and it is a bit difficult to play with the really deep Wick 1 that was designed for it. But it fits me, it fits what I do, it fit my budget, it has a great tone, and otherwise I'd still be playing somebody's borrowed instrument that God knows what its history is and what will go wrong at an inopportune moment.

I think part of the problem is that the desire to have a really fine tuba overshoots the reality of the budget. So a lot of people want an expensive horn, and don't plan the years ahead it takes to get it. Buying a tuba should be approached in a similar manner as buying any large appliance, even an automobile, or even in the same way as any business approaches purchasing capital improvements that are depreciated out over time. We're talking about an expensive tool of the trade that has to last and sound good, and stay within budget, and plan for ongoing maintenance and repair. This is not easy, and emotion has no place in the equation. Personal preference, yes, when it gets down to having solidified the budget and working down to a short list. But not emotion. An impulse purchase of a tuba is just plain disaster.

[tofu]

[

[Dean E]

An additional option not mentioned is a 401K loan. If you work in corporate America and have a 401K account you might be able to get a real low rate loan on your 401K account.

The way it works at my company is that you can take a loan out for up to 50% of the balance of your account. You pay a fix rate of prime at the time you take out the loan. There is a $50 setup fee added to the loan amount. You pick the term from 12 to 60 months. All interest is paid back to your 401K account as the investment for that balance. The loan with simple interest is deducted from each pay check. In affect you are investing part of your 401K account in your tuba.

This is not for everyone (the closer you are to retirement the less likely that this should be for you) but is just one option that might work for you. It worked for me on the purchase of my Miraphone 188.

Borrowing from one's retirement is very convenient, but I would prioritize.
1. Down payment for a house or condo should come first. Owning your house saves rent, builds equity, and creates tax advantages.
2. Borrowing for school expenses would come next. No one can take your education away from you.
3. Borrowing for luxury musical instruments, maybe a distant third.

[iiipopes]

Doc's last point is a most worthy one. In addition to my tuba and semi-resident souzy, I have numerous guitars and basses as well as other instruments. One of the most expensive is a custom fanned fret bass I designed and had built from scratch so I could play without old injuries biting back and cramping me up. It is arguably my most expensive instrument, and because of its nature, probably the least salable. But it has also made more money from gigs than all the rest of them put together.

So cost of an instrument, in the abstract, is not by itself really a good indicator as to whether you should purchase it, once the issue of the ability to purchase it is sorted out. I wouldn't say never, but the chances of me performing paid gigs with my tuba are slim bordering on none, so I invested in that aspect accordingly.

[Casey Tucker]

ok, well here's my current situation:

Doc, there's no fooling you. i am indeed a college freshman, 19 years old at SHSU. at this point in time I have not had the kind of job with a 401K plan. actually, i just got a job at a coffee shop to start saving for the horn. i'm still weighing my options at this point. i had a chat with my parents and they weren't thrilled at the thought of a loan seeing that they pay my tuition. but they did say that i was an option. my parents are pretty open minded and realize that, even though it's a luxury instrument, it will eventually become a necessary one in the long run and (depending on how you look at it) it's an investment. we're calling my CC an investment also. i've been EVERYWHERE with that horn and i would expect the F to do the same. anyways, they said if we did the loan they would still pay for half (which, in this case, means half of the loan) and half of the interest (w/e that turns out to be). but, like i said, im stilling thinking about it. i am working and saving and our brass quintet has a few wedding and church gigs, not to mention a few paying musicals. maybe by the time i make a decision i'll have enough cash to persuade me away from loan. thanks for all of the advice everyone. it has helped a great deal.

-casey

[tclements]

The best way is just good old fashioned greenbacks. Sellers LOVE the cash. Frequently, someone will bargain down just to have the bills. Getting a personal loan from your bank is a good way. If I need some quick cash (and don't want to take it out of savings) I just ask my banker (who knows me well). She will just lay the money on me against my line of credit. If you are a good customer, you can FREQUENTLY ask for a better rate and they will give you a 1/2 point or a point lower, if you ask nicely. Once, I borrowed some money from my folks; we made a contract and laid out a payment plan. This worked great. Sometime, if you know the seller, you can work out a deal with him/her. I have done this in the past with people I trusted; it doesn't hurt to ask, you might get surprised. Good Luck.