Unscrew stuck valves

jbaylies · Post by **jbaylies** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:23 pm

I'm trying to clean out my tuba, but I can't unscrew any of the tops so that I can take the piston valves out. Any suggestions?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:44 pm

A few LIGHT taps around the sides and on top of the cap with a small plastic or rawhide mallet will often be enough to shake things loose. Before you try the pliers, come back and ask again.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:45 pm

My first recommendation is to let a repair guy loosen them.

But--if you can't, try using a rawhide hammer (as used by jewelers) or even a little cheapie kitchen-type wooden meat-tenderizer mallet and gently deliver some taps tangentially to the cap to loosen it. Don't go overboard--I said "taps" not "whacks". If your caps are too corroded on, they should loosen easily.

Some folks suggest a strap wrench, but again, the problem is that a too-energetic twist can mess things up.

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:51 pm

Do the mallet taps first. You can probably use the rubber handle of a screwdriver for this if you don't have a mallet. Plenty of stuff you can find in the kitchen if you don't have a screwdriver with a rubber handle.

Then,
What I have done is taken a normal pliers and covered both of the toothed ends with electrical tape. Be careful. It was cheaper than buying a specialized tool.

BTW, If your top caps are stuck, you don't oil your valves often enough.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:53 pm

What TubaTinker & Chuck(G) said. NO PLIERS. Case in point: the eefer I tinkered with a few months ago had reticent valve caps. I finally got them loose with just finger pressure. I thought everything was fine until I tried to extract the valves. The guy before me had used pliers and warped the valve casings at the top. So even though the valves would work fine, you couldn't take them out to oil them. So, (to the tune of William Tell) to the tech, to the tech, to the tech, tech, tech!

AndyL · Post by **AndyL** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:40 pm

I'd recommend using a little _oil + time_ before you even start "tapping".

Give the oil time to penetrate through any dry gunk that may be jamming the threads.

I've used this method with success. Parts that wouldn't budge unscrew easily with fingers afterwards.

When you do get the caps off, a little slide grease on the threads will make them easier to remove (and less likely to "freeze") the next time.

peter birch · Post by **peter birch** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:49 am

find a tool called a Boa wrench, it is a strip of rubber on a handle that will give enough torque to move the valve top but will not damage it as a pair of pliers would.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:09 am

Use a mallet and a screwdriver.

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:41 am

iiipopes wrote:... The guy before me had used pliers and warped the valve casings at the top. So even though the valves would work fine, you couldn't take them out to oil them.

I asked Dan Oberloh about it one time and he told me it usually happens when someone over tightens the valve cap. The underside of the cap can cause the top edge of the casing to roll over and crush inwards a little. This small distortion is enough so it becomes hard to remove the valve. I had this problem on the second valve of my York-Master when I first got it, so I took it to Robb Stewart and him take care of the problem.

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:06 am

I've had good success with a Zyliss kitchen tool called, "Strongboy". I think it was recommended by a TubeNet poster some years agoâ€”and I ordered one. It should work on almost any size valve cap (trumpet to tuba) as you can see from the picture below shown opening different size lids:

The handle is long for leverage, but narrow enough to fit in tight spaces fairly well. There's an adjustable stainless steel band that you adjust with the knurled knob in the base of the handle. There's also a soft rubber bushing that wraps partially around the lid (or valve cap) under that band. Here's another picture:

It's available @ Amazon Tuba-Euphonium Store here:

Zyliss Strong Boy

This newer model Strong Boy is a bit bulkier. But... has a rubber strap instead of the stainless steel band so has more grip. Here's a comparison shot:

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:14 am

iiipopes wrote:What TubaTinker & Chuck(G) said. NO PLIERS. Case in point: The guy before me had used pliers and warped the valve casings at the top.

Don't miss the point these guys are trying to make. The problem is not scratching or maring the outside of the rotor casing or valve cap by using pliers. The real problem is too much leverage, which pliers can supply. The rotor casings are just brass. It doesn't take much leverage to make them oval shaped. This is not a good shape for rotor casings.

pjv · Post by **pjv** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:43 am

And while were at it...

...I usually loosen all valve caps on any tuba that won't be used for a while. Some tuba caps are tighter than others. Even if you put a little valve-oil on the thread, they can tighten up within a week (depending on the age, the weather, etc).

Good luck

-Patrick

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:19 am

pjv wrote:...I usually loosen all valve caps on any tuba that won't be used for a while. Some tuba caps are tighter than others. Even if you put a little valve-oil on the thread, they can tighten up within a week (depending on the age, the weather, etc).

Good advice. That is what I do if I am leaving a tuba for more than a week (say going on holiday). I also well oil the valves before leaving as well.

For unsticking valve tops I have always used a little piece of wood which I hold against the valve ring at a tangent and then gently tap with a hammer, then try again unscrewing by hand. If a few gentle taps don't work, then I would take it to a professional to free.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:16 am

A small dab of anti-sieze compound can also help matters quite a bit. Even a bit of grease can help to keep corrosion of cap threads down.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:18 am

When routinely re-greasing slides, I always make sure to also wipe the valve caps and casing threads and apply a very small dab to them as well. Never a problem with stuck caps that way.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:35 am

iiipopes wrote:When routinely re-greasing slides, I always make sure to also wipe the valve caps and casing threads and apply a very small dab to them as well. Never a problem with stuck caps that way.

Exactly! Whenever I service a horn, I ALWAYS put a small dab of slide grease inside the threads of valve caps (top AND bottom). Not enough to allow it to migrate into the piston or rotor, but just enough to coat the threads.

pjv · Post by **pjv** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:41 am

Sounds tricky. I'd be too scared to even let a drop of slide grease onto my valves. I just put a drop of valve oil on the caps from time to time during standard "maintenance".

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:36 pm

As Tubatinker said, you use only the tiniest dab. It stays on the outside of the threads of the casing, and as you screw the cap down, the threads naturally pull it out and away even more, so there is no way the grease can get into the valve casing unless you are just sloppy.

Unscrew stuck valves

Unscrew stuck valves

Oil the threads