Selmen Tubas

[The Big Ben]

I do cameras, too. Russian/Ukrainian cameras were notorious for there lack of quality control. I guess if they made their quota for cameras for the month, everything was cool. Didn't matter if they worked...

A few camera repairmen began specializing in these camera and some actually offer a gurrantee that the camera works fine and they actually are a good value for amateurs. (I know Rick Denney uses these sorts of cameras)

If I knew about repairing instruments, I would consider buying a few of these "Selmans" on spec, going through them, correcting problems and add a premium to the price for the trouble. Might even be a good project to give apprentices practice repairing horns before actually working on expensive stuff.

"Selman 4/4 BB-flat presented by The Big Ben" would be a good sounding name, wouldn't it? And school programs would get acceptable horns for reasonable prices.

Jeff

[Donn]

Donn, I want to know how you can avoid buying things made in China. It's like crabgrass--it's everywhere.

To be fair, that article that you cited hasn't been updated in a couple of years--things have improved somewhat. I figure if Orpheus is selling Dalyan, well, they don't sell junk.

Sure - buy from people who don't sell junk! That's the moral of the story.

I get stuck with a Chinese thing once in a while, mostly when I'm in a hurry. If you have time to do the research, you find out about a lot of great stuff that isn't on the shelves at your local retailers (especially the big boxes), and often costs more, but also will work better and last longer.

[Chuck(G)]

I get stuck with a Chinese thing once in a while, mostly when I'm in a hurry. If you have time to do the research, you find out about a lot of great stuff that isn't on the shelves at your local retailers (especially the big boxes), and often costs more, but also will work better and last longer.

As one of the posters on a list I frequent says "I can't afford a cheap tool."

[Rick Denney]

I do cameras, too. Russian/Ukrainian cameras were notorious for there lack of quality control. I guess if they made their quota for cameras for the month, everything was cool. Didn't matter if they worked...

This brings up a range of issues that must be asked with any product at a price that is too good to be true:

1. Is the design acceptable?

2. Does the workmanship provide the basis for a reasonable repair?

3. Will the product work reliably?

The third item really comes into play with those Ukrainian cameras. (By the way, are you a member of the Kiev Report? If not, PM me and I'll hook you up. If so, I don't recognize your name.) To take two examples: The Pentacon Six was made in former East Germany. The design was exacting and the camera looks, smells, and feels like a quality piece of gear. But the design is a bit too exacting for East German production quality, and they have a reliability problem. Great art is quite possible using it. The alternative in the same configuration is the Kiev 60, which uses the same lens mount. It's built like a cheap alarm clock, and design with limited features and loose tolerances so that it will work reliably even when built poorly. You may have to go through several to find one that works, but once it works it usually stays working.

Both are good designs in that both, when production fulfills the requirements of the design, produce excellent results.

The St. Petersburg tubas provided the best analog to the Kiev cameras (as the old B&S provided to the Pentacon cameras). The designs were simple and solid, and the construction marginal. Often, some work is required to make it reliable, but in the end the tuba is at least a tuba and not a tuba-shaped brass decoration.

Many of the Asian instruments were, at first, tuba-shaped brass decorations. No amount of fiddling will make them a playable tuba, because their design is flawed. They made copies but made compromises in those copies without understanding the effects of those compromises (and without, apparently, understanding a diatonic scale). Some of the Ukrainian cameras (such as the ill-fated Kiev 90) were just camera-shaped sculptures--they never worked even when constructed perfectly.

But I think most of them are past that stage now, and the designs are passable. Production is still a problem, but often some aftermarket tweaking will overcome that issue.

Guess what--I could have just been describing a King 2341.

Even high-end tubas are expected to receive a little fine-tuning by the retailer. I remind that to my Kiev camera friends when their new Kiev 60 doesn't synch with the flash, or measure light properly within two stops.

Rick "who thinks the Dalyan tubas he's seen were solidly, if not beautifully, constructed" Denney

[tubaguy9]

Genuine Selman. When the "Made in China" label goes on - the quality goes in. Seriously, here are some actual quotes from the ad on ebay.
"DO NOT BUY OTHER THROW AWAY TUBAS!" --no, buy this throw away tuba instead.
"On the other side of the Bell is Model #15432 stamped into it showing that this is not one of those cheap imitations."
--Because we all know that if there is no model number stamped into the bells other side it's a dead give away for being a cheap imitation Chinese piece of crap.
"It Also Has The Serial Number!" --Why on earth would it need a serial number, it already has #15432 stamped into the other side of the bell.
"This is the *REAL* 2007 Selman and not a cheap imitation!" --The cheap imitation Selman sells for $29.95 and has no number stamped on the other side of the bell.
"Finally, a Brand New Selman Tuba that Sounds and Plays Superbly" --all previous new Selman tubas sounded like crap and played like you were trying to blow a golf ball through 50 feet of garden hose.

Well, I still haven't decided if I'm going to buy one of these but it's a lot more fun now that I have had a chance to heckle the ebay ad.

BTW - here is the link to the ad if you are interested in seeing a genuine Selman for yourself: http://cgi.ebay.com/85-OFF-NEW-TUBA-SEL ... dZViewItem

Making these claims is like saying...
100% Real Cubic Zirconium...We know...that's saying it a 100% real fake! (might be worth more if it wasn't all real cubic zirconium

[Rick Denney]

and the construction marginal.

Has anyone on this forum been threatened with a lawsuit for (to quote Richard Milhaus Nixon) "say[ing] this about that"?

Is marginal bad?

Rick to Vendor: "I would like to see one of your Willson 3200 F tubas"

Vendor to Rick: "We don't have one available right now. Have you tried our St. Petersburg?"

Rick "sigh" Denney

[pianolance]

Okay, we have heard about a Selman French Horn, Alto Trombone and Euphonium - all of them seem to indicate that there is a least a measure of quality to these horns. Any actual tuba experience? What I find amusing is the emphasis on the name - Genuine Selman - not a cheap imitation. Since this is an obvious attempt to capitalize on the Selmer name, this begs the question, Since when has Selmer been particularily noted for its quality tubas?

BTW - if you find that your wedding ring is 100% Genuine Cubic Zerconium you can at least take heart in the fact that it probably wasn't stolen.

[prototypedenNIS]

The Chinese horns are getting better. They're still nowhere near the quality of a 25000$ new horn but bang for the buck is hit and miss, some companies will be excellent, some horrid, some passible...

[Dylan King]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QoA44c23A

[Tubaryan12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QoA44c23A

Since you went there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtUYaSfC ... ed&search=

It's like Adam Sandler meets Joshua Kadison

[iiipopes]

But what I really want to know, if I make sure to get a genuine Selman tuba, and not a cheap imitation as the ads warn, will it give me a World Class Tone?

[The Big Ben]

But what I really want to know, if I make sure to get a genuine Selman tuba, and not a cheap imitation as the ads warn, will it give me a World Class Tone?

No. You need a King. Accept No Substitutes. King. The Baritone for World Class Sound. (My teacher told me so.)