What are these WWII Tubas?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:32 pm

Just wondering, they look to be rather large tubas, or the people playing them are not very large. Not sure, but just wondered if anyone had any ideas.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-German-Photo-K ... dZViewItem

Thanks,
Rob

[/img]

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:18 pm

Look like regular Kaiser BBb horns to me. (oh, that poor trombone player

)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am

Chuck replied

Look like regular Kaiser BBb horns to me.

Thanks for that info. I was just curious, but all I've managed to find out about Kaiser tubas is that they seem to be 5/4 Eurpoean horns, named after an Austria Emperor. Seems like they were primarily made by Cerveny, and/or Alexander?

I always thought it was just a word similar to BAT to imply a rather large tuba.

If anyone has anything to add to elevate my ignorance I'll be appreciative.

Thanks,
Rob

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:18 pm

Rob wrote:Chuck replied
Look like regular Kaiser BBb horns to me.
... I always thought it was just a word similar to BAT to imply a rather large tuba. .... Thanks,
Rob

That's a fair analogy. Here's one of those 'kaiser' thingies next to my Miraphone 186. I originally thought it might be an Alex but the TubeNet 'freak jury' voted that it is probably a Bohland & Fuchs.... Bohemian or Graslitz tuba.

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:53 am

They look just like Walter Hilgers personal Bohland & Fuchs. I would love to get my hands on one.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:08 pm

ZNC Dandy wrote:They look just like Walter Hilgers personal Bohland & Fuchs. I would love to get my hands on one.

Mine's for sale!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:27 pm

The problem is that most of the Bohemian-style tubas used a nearly identical tubing layout, so it's hard to positively identify one from a grainy photo beyond the generic "Kaiser BBb".

trseaman · Post by **trseaman** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:46 pm

Taken from the Oktoberfest webpage! They look pretty big!

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:13 am

I might be wrong, but I don't think any tubas were made anywhere during World War II--not even in Germany. In America, musical instrument factories were used as munitions plants. I think they did the same thing in other countries of both Allies and Axis.

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:32 am

I might be wrong, but I don't think any tubas were made anywhere during World War II--not even in Germany.

Despite the happy Bavarians skill and history building horns, pretty much EVERYTHING metal related was probably conscripted by the ruling party to manufacture munitions, panzers, etc.

trseaman · Post by **trseaman** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:39 pm

It's really hard to say... Just like us, they could be playing 100yr old horns too!

Tim

MikeS · Post by **MikeS** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:37 am

The designation "Kriegsmarine" on their caps dates the photo between 1935 and 1945. Prior to 1935 the caps would have said "Reichsmarine."

I was not able to find much specific information about German instrument factory production during WWII. Apparently some of the Bohemian makers continued at least limited production. Josef Lidl, for example, made horns and trombones through the early 1940's. All in all, as others have said, it's hard to believe skilled metal workers and machine tools were not used for war production.

Among the Allies I believe that Besson made no instruments from late 1938-1947. H. N. White (King) in the U. S. made radar assemblies during the war and the U. S. Selmer plants wre turned into export packing facilities from 1944-1946.

P@rick · Post by **P@rick** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:25 am

IT'S A MELTON!!! I'm sure...it must be...

Iâ€™m from The Netherlands and a week ago I bought me a Melton Kaiser (6/4) Tuba. It looks just like the one on the WOII picture.

Anton Meinl from Geretsried (germany) started it all before WWII and stopped in 1941. In 1947 he started again in his fathers company (Wenzel Meinl). They still produce Melton (European brand name) and Meinl-Weston tubaâ€™s.
Here is the history if you can read German:
http://www.melton.de/blech/geschichte.htm

My tuba has no original engravings, but a well known dutch musical instruments company (Adams) imported it and engraved it something like:
Melton
W. Meinl
Geretsried
Adams Weert

Iâ€™m on the job, but when Iâ€™m home I will take a picture of my new (old) tuba and post it. Here is a picture of a tuba which is exactly like mine (googled it).

Regards,
Patrick

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:41 pm

If you study the original EBay photo, you will notice that probably the guy in front and definitely the guy behind him are not using the fourth valve - kinda like most middle schoolers and many high schoolers.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:32 am

Nah, just keep your little finger on it and tell everyone how proud you are that you own a four valved tuba!

P@rick · Post by **P@rick** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:50 pm

Finally I found some time to take some pictures of my ladyâ€™s. My little girl is a Yamaha YEB 321 Eb tuba. I put it on the picture as a reference. The other is my big mama which I recently bought.

The funny thing is that the guy from who I bought the Melton tuba was as big as the tuba itself (110cm). He was advertising it on a Dutch online market place for 500 Euro. There was one bid of 250 Euro when I gave him a call. I went over to see/play the Tuba and I would have been happy to get the tuba for the 500 Euro he asked. But Iâ€™m Dutch so I asked him about the price (maybe I could save me 50 Euros or so).

The reaction of the guy made me almost fall of my chair!!! He told me:
â€œThere is a bid of 250 Euros but that is not enough, I want at least 300 Eurosâ€

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:21 pm

Good buy Patrick - an impressive tuba! How does it play?

Your story reminds me of the purchase of my old Haag Eb. That was advertise on EBay with a starting price of GBP450. It was located not too far away, so I went to test play. I was then amazed when the seller said I could have it for GBP400 if I bought it there and then (it had only been on EBay 1 day). I was happy to oblige.

P@rick · Post by **P@rick** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:11 pm

It plays as it looksâ€¦MASSIVE.
Iâ€™m a Eb tuba player. Occasionally (+/- 3 times a year) I have a Bb tuba in my hands when I help out in other bands. This does not happen often so itâ€™s always heavy to play (I get jaw cramps) and have to watch the intonation. The problem is that I play on crappy sousaphones or Bb tubas when I help out.

But on this big mama it seems to go by itself. The pitch is good, intonation is much betterâ€¦and that fat soundâ€¦itâ€™s great! I think Iâ€™m in love

.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:26 pm

P@rick wrote:that fat soundâ€¦itâ€™s great! I think Iâ€™m in love .

I know what you mean - big tubas are addictive

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:09 am

Thats a gorgeous horn! Why can't I ever find a horn like that here in the U.S. What a beautiful horn.