Daylight Savings Time moved up 3 weeks in US and Can

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:31 pm

I am sure most of you probably already know this, but Daylight Savings Time will be starting 3 weeks earlier this year in most of the United States and Canada, and ending a week later. There are patches available for PC's, Palms, SmartPhones, and many other similar devices. In the past 2 weeks I have upgraded about 100 PC's at work, a dozen servers, and ran a job on the Exchange servers last night to update the mailboxes. Windows 2000 and 9x users will have to use the utility TZEDIT as the good people at Microsoft are not issuing patches for these machines, even 2000 Server.
Some relevant links:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/timezone.mspx
http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/systems/d ... ndows.html
http://www.palm.com/us/support/download ... almos.html
http://www.america.htc.com/support/support-product.html

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:25 pm

Windows, what's that?

In all seriousness, the new DST changes have made my life somewhat less than fun. Patches to oracle, patches to SAP, patches to all the Unix flavors. Then more patches for Canada. then more patches for Western Australia and other Canadian provinces. Yuck.

TMurphy · Post by **TMurphy** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:47 pm

As far as I know, us Mac users will need to do nothing other than the regular system updates (which your computer should check for automatically once a week). So basically, go about your usual business, the problem will fix itself with no further effort from you.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:03 pm

TMurphy wrote:As far as I know, us Mac users will need to do nothing other than the regular system updates (which your computer should check for automatically once a week). So basically, go about your usual business, the problem will fix itself with no further effort from you.

As will XP, if you have automatic updates turned on.

TMurphy · Post by **TMurphy** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:40 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:
TMurphy wrote:As far as I know, us Mac users will need to do nothing other than the regular system updates (which your computer should check for automatically once a week). So basically, go about your usual business, the problem will fix itself with no further effort from you.
As will XP, if you have automatic updates turned on.

With auto updates on WinXP, do they install on their own, or do you need to approve it?? With OSX, it just searches for the updates, you have to click ok (and then enter your password) to install.

Just curious.

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:57 pm

the elephant wrote:Will Macs require patching or is that needed when all data comes from a network time server that is constantly updated?

Your auto updating (whatever Apple calls it, Up to Date maybe?) should update you properly.

I'm assuming that since Mac OS X is based on NextStep which was a mach microkernel + BSD Unix userspace with a proprietary window server that Apple's using NTP (network time protocol) just like other Unix systems. Using NTP will NOT automatically adjust for daylight saving time. Time on Unix like systems is stored as the number of seconds since midnight UTC of January 1, 1970. The representation of this number depends on the timezone settings on the machine.

I went and did some research and found this: http://cfm.gs.washington.edu/network/ntp/macosx/
looks like Mac Os X does use NTP.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:47 pm

Hey! Thanks for the heads up! I had completely forgotten about it.

With your links, I was able to download the patch and change everything here at the office, since they're not all online.

I looked up the Mac website and there are some updates or changes to be mindful of:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305056

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:37 pm

TMurphy wrote:With auto updates on WinXP, do they install on their own, or do you need to approve it?? With OSX, it just searches for the updates, you have to click ok (and then enter your password) to install.

Just curious.

On my installation, you are aware that updates are pending only when you go to shut down. XP gives you a screen that says "keep your shirt on, I'm installing. I'll turn the bloody thing off when I'm done."

No prompt for passwords.

TMurphy · Post by **TMurphy** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:14 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:
TMurphy wrote:With auto updates on WinXP, do they install on their own, or do you need to approve it?? With OSX, it just searches for the updates, you have to click ok (and then enter your password) to install.

Just curious.
On my installation, you are aware that updates are pending only when you go to shut down. XP gives you a screen that says "keep your shirt on, I'm installing. I'll turn the bloody thing off when I'm done."

No prompt for passwords.

As much as I love it when machines can maintain themselves, this is something I must say I'm not thrilled with. I don't like the idea of anything being installed on my computer without my say-so...even updates. That's one of the reasons spyware for Macs is rare (nonexistant?? I've not come across any, but it's probably out there)....no software gets installed without my knowledge. I like it that way. It's a fine line to walk, how much control to turn over to the system.

Tim "I haven't owned a windows machine since windows 98" Murphy

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:08 am

TMurphy wrote:As much as I love it when machines can maintain themselves, this is something I must say I'm not thrilled with.

It's dead simple to turn off Windows Update on XP machines. I do it on all my machines, and recommend it to my clients when we use XP boxes (which we usually do). Then, you'll see the bubble that "Updates are ready for your machine" and you can decide when to install it.

In the traffic signal world, fixing a change in daylight savings requires flashing new software into the signal controllers. 15 years ago, the time change was a no-vacation, double-12-hour-shift for all my crews. Then, controller calendars got smart and we didn't have to do that any more. I guess we'll be doing it again, because much of the stuff out there from 10 years ago isn't being supported any more.

Rick "thinking this stuff gets decided on a whim" Denney

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:00 am

Marty,

Thanks for posting that info. My new PC is WinXP where I've been updating regularly (manually though) so I don't need to worry about this. But I also have an old Win98 machine that I needed to patch.

As a 'heads up', the file this websiteoffered for Win98 machines didn't work for me—said the file was 'damaged'. I downloaded it again with same results. So I went to MSFT's website and downloaded the file:

04/03/1998 12:00AM 41,984 TZEDIT.EXE

link for file...
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/techne ... it/CONFIG/

...this 42K file worked fine on my Win98 machine—along with following the instructions in the other link (uic.edu). Some folks will probably not worry about this and just change the time on their PC manually. For those few weeks, even though their time on their PC is correct, they may not be able to get certain updates and/or patches because what many servers look for is not a 5 minute window of their PC time, but 5 minutes within the correct timezone (GMT -4.0 for DST in the East). This was explained on one of the links at UIC.edu page.

Now, I have to go patch my Mother-in-laws PC too.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:10 am

Rick, I believe that XP installs with auto updates turned off', which seems to be the opposite of Vista's default.

Actually, I don't see what the fuss is--there's no guarantee that the time zone adjustment this year will be permanent--one might as well disable the time zone adjust (see Control Panel) and adjust it manually when one changes all of the clocks in the house on Sunday morning.

Or just keep your system on UTC.

You know, we could do something "advanced" such as splitting the difference between DST and Standard Time and leaving the clocks set at a half-hour offset the year round--like, say, Teheran does.

--Chuck "who grew up in Northwest Indiana and still remembers the difference between "official" time and "real" time" (G)

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:29 pm

Chuck - weren't those years great, because everything on TV came on earlier (and before bedtime!)

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:26 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:Rick, I believe that XP installs with auto updates turned off', which seems to be the opposite of Vista's default.

Could be. All my XP boxes were hovered over by our IT idiots before coming to me, so anything's possible. I've always disabled automatic updates, because it always attempts to update when I'm in the middle of edit reports and have six programs open at once. Or when I'm trying to shut the machine down to board a plane.

I never attempted keeping my home computer updated. The updates are always huge, and I only have dial-up access at home. The dial-up prevents most security issues in any case. Microsoft and just about everybody else keeps assuming that folks who don't have high-speed aren't good customers. Sheesh.

I agree that it's really no big deal for user-operated systems. But it's a PITA for embedded systems that depend on time-of-day. The phone rings a lot when the traffic signal system brings in morning peak signal timings an hour late, or terminates the PM peak plan an hour early. Most traffic signals in fringe suburban areas run on their own internal clocks and schedules because connection to the central computer requires unaffordable infrastructure.

Rick "time-base coordinated" Denney

Brassdad · Post by **Brassdad** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:39 pm

Oh man...was I supposed to set my clock back last fall!?!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:49 pm

windshieldbug wrote:Chuck - weren't those years great, because everything on TV came on earlier (and before bedtime!)

I remember when the state legislature mandated that all clocks in public places be kept on CST. So you'd have wall clocks with signs below them informing you that there was a one-hour difference between what the clock said and what the real time was.

I think Indiana finally got it all straightened out only last year (or maybe not), but the fight between Indianapolis and the Chicago satellites has been going on nearly forever.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:43 am

Since Vietnam is half in the tropics, there is no Daylight Savings Time. That in itself is a good reason to be here. I remember in high school when we had year round DST. If memory serves me correctly, in 1973, we just didn't go back to Standard Time in October. It wasn't so bad until we went back to school after Christmas break and school started at 7:30. The sun came up at 8:00!

I use an iBook (one of the white ones running Mac OS 10.3.9). A couple of days ago Hanh and I had to move. I am not now connected to the Internet with that computer. Even though I turned off the automatic time check, it still keeps trying to call home! Our present residence is only temporary. Hanh is only 4'11" (and disabled) and some places are too small for her! I tried to wash dishes tonight and hurt my back because the sink is only three feet from the floor! And I don't have back problems!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:29 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:Since Vietnam is half in the tropics, there is no Daylight Savings Time. That in itself is a good reason to be here. I remember in high school when we had year round DST. If memory serves me correctly, in 1973, we just didn't go back to Standard Time in October. It wasn't so bad until we went back to school after Christmas break and school started at 7:30. The sun came up at 8:00!

Indeed. I hated it then. I hate it now.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:56 pm

When I am done with my work in Vietnam, I am moving to Arizona. It is the only of the 48 conterminous states determined to fight the dreaded disease of DST. But stay away from TUBA CITY. Being on the Navajo Reservation, it is the only incorporated city in Arizona which changes its clocks.

ON A TRIVIAL NOTE: 70 years ago, clocks were set an hour ahead on the last Sunday in April and then they were set back on the last Sunday in September. Only five months of DST back in those days!

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:50 pm

BUMP