1 valveset for 2 tubas?

[Peach]

A lot of manufacturers seem to whack identical valvesets onto whole ranges of tubas (thinking MW, B&S, Gronitz, etc).
So I was thinking...

I've been playing on a Yamaha Maestro Eb and notice the complete valveset is removable with only a few screws.
Looks as though a tool is required to detach the leadpipe from the valves.
Presumably the idea is to help with repairs but I thought only a small shift would give you a valveset which could be transfered from one tuba to another (in my head this all seems very easy...).

Has anyone ever done something like this before!?

A detachable leadpipe - one for each instrument - could be sorted and the valves attached on mounts to fit each tuba. Seperate main tuning slides would be needed for sure but other than that, I can't see why not...

Switching between horns would take a few minutes so it wouldn't be something you'd do between movements(!!).

Have I gone completely insane!?
HELP!

[iiipopes]

Jupiter is doing it for ease of repair when the horns get trashed in school music programs, and has for several years.

[cjk]

I suspect UncleBeer has done it.

[cjk]

I think what Peach is probably looking for is having two bugles and one set of valves for himself (or hearing about somebody whose done it) rather than us pointing out what manufacturers makes their horns with removeable valve sections.

[eupher61]

I'm not sure what that would accomplish, though. Sure, you could have two different bugles, but it would take, as you noted, a good bit of effort to make the change. But, for what purpose? It would have to be staying an Eb tuba, f'rinstance, and you couldn't do anything too major as far as changing bore of the bugle. It would be nice for repair time, if you're prone to causing/allowing bell or outer bow damage.

[ken k]

If you had tubas of different pitch, don't forget you would have to alter the length of the valve slides also. Not that it would be a big problem; but it would be another step.

I can't imagine you would save a whole lot of money by doing this.

You could develop custom modular tubas similar to Edwards trombones and trumpets....where you could change the bell, the leadpipe, etc. don't know how big of a market there would be for such a thing.

OTOH, I have often thought about putting a smaller bell on my Boosey Eb. It would be neat to be able to switch from the 16 - 17" bell for quintet stuff to the 20" for bigger ensemble gigs.

Of if you have the Conn tubas for example change from the 52 bell to the 56 bell assuming the rest of the horn is the same.

[Dan Schultz]

I have yet to see any 'removable' valve section that I would be comfortable about pulling off one horn and putting on another horn. It seems that there is always something that is just a bit different.... mainly due to the fact that most of the horns I see are school horns and are subject to a lot of bangs and smashes. That doesn't mean that it can't be done... I'm just saying that it's not always as easy as it looks!

You might get by with it on a personal horn, but as one poster mentioned... I don't see any real value in doing so.

[Chuck(G)]

I have yet to see any 'removable' valve section that I would be comfortable about pulling off one horn and putting on another horn. It seems that there is always something that is just a bit different.... mainly due to the fact that most of the horns I see are school horns and are subject to a lot of bangs and smashes. That doesn't mean that it can't be done... I'm just saying that it's not always as easy as it looks!

You might get by with it on a personal horn, but as one poster mentioned... I don't see any real value in doing so.

Dan, there's always these:

[Gorilla Tuba]

This doesn't directly answer your query. However, Kalison tubas were made you you could swap machines (Valve sets). You could unbolt the piston set and insert a rotary. I don't know if it worked between different models (could you put the Daryl Smith machine on a K2000 and vice versa?).

[windshieldbug]

I have often thought about putting a smaller bell on my Boosey Eb. It would be neat to be able to switch from the 16 - 17" bell for quintet stuff to the 20" for bigger ensemble gigs

Which begs the question: is it the bell size or the bore size that makes the difference?

(I know that my quintet horn has a much smaller bore than the horn I used for orchestra.. )

[Chuck(G)]

Which begs the question: is it the bell size or the bore size that makes the difference?

(I know that my quintet horn has a much smaller bore than the horn I used for orchestra.. )

Let's see, 4/4 York BBb: 0.750" bore; 6/4 Martin BBb, 0.720" bore. Little Besson 2-20 BBb, 0.689" bore, King 2341 BBb, 0.687" bore.

Yup, you're right--it's the bore that makes the difference...

[ken k]

I have often thought about putting a smaller bell on my Boosey Eb. It would be neat to be able to switch from the 16 - 17" bell for quintet stuff to the 20" for bigger ensemble gigs

Which begs the question: is it the bell size or the bore size that makes the difference?

(I know that my quintet horn has a much smaller bore than the horn I used for orchestra.. )

Well on my horn, the old Boosey & Hawkes, (what is now a Besson 981 Eb) John Fletcher had B&H put a 20" inch bell on it. Originally it had a 16 or 17" bell (probably what is on the 983). I think they added a large leadpipe, but I don't think they changed the bore or valveset. That is my understanding anyway, but I could be wrong.........Shocker!!!!

And I was saying, although I was not very clear in my writing, that I would like to put the smaller bell on my horn to see how that would sound in my quintet. Besson now makes a 980 Eb also which I believe is basically what I am describing. it woudl be neat to be able to swap the bells and see. i would think that would give a more compact sound.

What was the difference inthe bell size between your quintet horn and your orchestral horn?
k

[windshieldbug]

4" (15" vs 19", but German-style flare vs American-style flare), but I think it has more to do with bore and throat than it does bell size.

[Dan Schultz]

I have often thought about putting a smaller bell on my Boosey Eb. It would be neat to be able to switch from the 16 - 17" bell for quintet stuff to the 20" for bigger ensemble gigs

Which begs the question: is it the bell size or the bore size that makes the difference?

(I know that my quintet horn has a much smaller bore than the horn I used for orchestra.. )

I can tell you that putting a 17" bell on a King 2341 instead of the 22" bell (both the same length) dropped the pitch about 15 cents. Haven't got a clue why. I would have thought a smaller bell would tend to raise the pitch. Chuck G tried to explain the phenomenon to me.

[Søren]

It is a physical fact that the tuning of a brass instrument depends primarily on the bore of the first 3/4 of the horn, and the sound is primarily determined of the last 1/3 of the horn.
Therefore I think it makes sense to change a good leadpipe and a good valveset from one tuba to another, or change bells on a tuba.

The information is from “Horns, Strings, and Harmonyâ€

[eupher61]

thus TJ et al in the studio scene putting Miraphone bells on everything in the 70s/80s (that, and the fact that they were Miraphone endorsers playing on B&S!)

[cjk]

I played around with one of those 15" Imperial bells on a Mirafone 184...

...Those old 15" Eb Imperial bells are LOUD!

What were your other findings? Final assessment?

Doc

I know you're asking bloke, but the Besson bell sounded 98% the same as the original just with the volume turned way up. Much louder for less effort. I liked it, but chose a different bell (Buescher 17inch E-flat bell) because it had other qualities that I liked (rounder, louder than the original (but not as loud as the Besson), and the ability to change the personality of the sound from the mouthpiece). It can still be gruff, but now it can be round when I want it to. I still have the Besson bell in the attic for if or when I change my mind.

[iiipopes]

Of course, M-W/Melton and B&S/VMI have taken the art of using the same valve block for different instruments to a fine art. Now, if they would only make them modular, Oh, boy what a pandora's box that would open up! Switchable bell trumpets would seem downright pedestrian!