Whither the English 'F'?

[OldsRecording]

Got a question for you Brits (or Anglophiles) out there- What ever happened to the F tuba in Britan? Yes, I have read Bevan's 'The Tuba Family' and even he doesn't have much to say about it- just something to the effect of '...after WWII when the F tuba was no longer being produced...' I mean , wouldn't an F work better with your typical orchestral keys then an Eb? Thanks.[/u]

[Steve Inman]

But why?

[cjk]

But why?

Maybe they leaked oil?


More likely because they were terrible.

[Richard Murrow]

My understanding is that it was still being used until a young John Fletcher started playing in the London orchestras around 1960ish. At that point he had such a profound effect on the tuba sound in British orchestras that there was a gradual move to the EEb. Later he began to use the CC tuba and other players began to use it also, though not to the extent that they did and still do use the EEb. So, the demise of the F must have to some degree, been the fault of "Fletch".

[Wyvern]

B&H stopped making F tubas simply for economic reasons. They never sold many and some accountant decided it was not worth continuing there manufacture. This was about the same time they stopped making high pitched instruments for brass bands, so bands had to convert to the standard pitch (as used in military bands and orchestras).

Fletcher came to prominence a little bit later, so did not initiate the change, although his influence most likely accelerated the replacement of the old remaining F tubas.

Regarding F being easier to play in orchestras - according to John Fletcher in one of his articles - sometimes F is better and sometimes Eb, so it balances. Bruckner #4 is one that comes to my mind which must be easier on Eb tuba.

Having had the pleasure of trying an old British F tuba, I cannot image them providing the sound required in modern orchestras anyway - the one I tried was not that much bigger than a euphonium.

[Peach]

As to why the Eb's took over..
To add to what Mike said I'd say a lot of it has to to do with our attitude over here. It does ok, so we'll stick with it.

Just like a lot of good players in the States will only ever play Bb, very many UK players find an Eb does just fine for what they do. Unless they're trying to hold up a big orchestra an accomplished Eb player can make a lot of noise and cope well with all manner of repertoire written for contrabass. A good contra would do the job better in a lot of cases, but again, the Eb does ok.

When I talk about Eb's I'm referring to the big B&H types.

The UK stuck with smaller bore bones & trumpets for longer than the US (I think) so those little F's were alright. When the larger bores really came in, so did Fletcher with his Eb. Fletcher's influence to UK tubists was/is huge so if he was doing it, it was ok with everyone else. The Eb's were easily available (unlike anything German or American) so it became the obvious choice. The B&H Bb's tend to be hard work for anyone not brought-up on them so they'd be out of the question for most.

Players entering college nowadays would probably expect to gain proficiency on a contrabass; certainly if they were looking at auditioning. Whereas the Eb does the whole bass tuba role so folks don't tend to change.

Most UK guys who check Tubenet are the sorts of guys who are into tubas other than a B&H Eb with a 24AW (and they're by far the majority).

[Peach]

But why?

Why no Boosey F's?

As ever - Money.

They sold hundreds of Eb's to brass bands but only a handful of F's to pros and dedicated 'orchestra-only' guys.

[Wyvern]

"Eb"s rule!!!

I wonder for how long before it will be "CC"s rule!???

Jonathan "who's experience using CC in orchestra is that it is one thing you Americans have got right!"

[windshieldbug]

But why?

Lucas typewriters.

[Chuck(G)]

Maybe you're thinking not of the "f", but of the long "s":

[Kevin Hendrick]

Maybe you're thinking not of the "f", but of the long "s":

spider man sells famous literature under churches?

Anything'f poffible, ifn't it?

[Wyvern]

Will Denis Wick Mouthpieces fit an old Boosey and Hawke's EEb? If not, what will?

The ones with the smaller shank will, which are the ones without the L on the number.

[Rick Denney]

Having had the pleasure of trying an old British F tuba, I cannot image them providing the sound required in modern orchestras anyway - the one I tried was not that much bigger than a euphonium.

Amen.

And your history seems most plausible to me. I'm sure I read somewhere that Fletcher was unable to find an F to use in orchestra, and moved to the Eb because of sheer availability.

Only orchestral players used the F, and even within the F category, there were two main branches. The older model was the five-valved uncompensated Barlow F tuba which was just larger than a euphonium. Newer orchestral F's were more typical top-action Blaikley compensators with four valves. Apparently, they were quite different, with the latter much more like the Eb models of the day.

I would expect that orchestra F's were never production items. The predominant usage in British schools was Eb or Bb, and that's what fed usage in brass bands. It would have been an easy business decision to cease production.

Fletcher's big influence was in the design of the Sovereign, with its substantially increase bell size and taper.

Rick "thinking the old Barlow F would appeal more to a euphonium player" Denney

[OldsRecording]

Thanks, guys. Now I get it. Lurkers of the World, Unite!