York vs. York-Master... attention Rick Denney!

[Bandmaster]

I just got my new future restoration project delivered today via UPS. I got lucky and got a second chance offer to buy this off of eBay when the winner failed to pay up. It was identified as an old Blessing tuba, but when I saw the photo something caught my eye. I scratched my head and thought to myself "thet's not a Blessing... that's a York model 716!" So I called Dan Oberloh and sent him the photos and he agreed... it's a York! They apparently made stenciled horns for Blessing in the late 30's. Only the bell says Blessing, the body has no markings except the serial number (1212XX).

I know Rick Denney has a comparison on his website where he tried to put a drawing of a York up against his York-Master. So I figured I would do it for real and place my York-Master side by side with this old York and see how they match up. So I put the front facing bell on my Y-M and lined them up for photos. The bells are almost identical, the wrap of body of the York is a little taller and narrower and it is noticabily lighter by weight. The valves are also larger in diameter, in fact when I removed one from each, the bottom of the Y-M valve would slip inside the bottom of the York valve. The York valves are also aligned slightly more horizontal (less vertical). The valve tubing for the York a tiny bit less in diameter than the Y-M, maybe a .748 vs. a .750 bore. The plumbing of the valve tubing is extremely similar.

Below are side by side photos so you cansee for yourself. Enjoy!







Now, with Dan so overloaded with tubas in his shop and about a three year waiting list, I wonder if I could talk Bloke or Lee Stoffer into taking a look at it? All the valves move OK except #4, it's stuck but most of the slides move nicely. In fact the valve tubing looks to be in excellent condition. Maybe find an upright York bell to swap into it? I got it real cheap, so putting money into it will be no problem. Only Dan will have to finish my Holton before I get too carried away...

[Rick Denney]

Okay if I use your pictures? I'd really love a change to make a picture from a long distance with a telephoto lens, such that the camera is looking right down the casings. The extra distance would minimize perspective effects.

Your York Master has the York-style fourth-valve wrap, which mine does not. Mine is wrapped in a big open loop on the back side of the outer branches.

But the biggest difference I see is, I think, really important. Notice how the bell stack on the York has a faster taper than the York Master. Can you measure the difference in diameter at the bell attachment ring? At least those look to be in the same position on the stack. The YM looks to have a narrower stack and bell throat.

The later B&M's with the Marzan influence and the one-piece bells also seem to have the wider taper in the bell stack.

Congratulations on your good fortune.

Rick "envious" Denney

[windshieldbug]

One of the old York employees talking about Blessing and York on Horn-u-copia

[iiipopes]

I understand wanting an upright bell for general playing. But please restore and keep the recording bell along with the body of the tuba. It would be a shame to separate the pair. So please consider an upright bell as an addition to instead of a substitute for the recording bell.

[Bandmaster]

Okay if I use your pictures? I'd really love a change to make a picture from a long distance with a telephoto lens, such that the camera is looking right down the casings. The extra distance would minimize perspective effects.

Your York Master has the York-style fourth-valve wrap, which mine does not. Mine is wrapped in a big open loop on the back side of the outer branches.

But the biggest difference I see is, I think, really important. Notice how the bell stack on the York has a faster taper than the York Master. Can you measure the difference in diameter at the bell attachment ring? At least those look to be in the same position on the stack. The YM looks to have a narrower stack and bell throat.

The later B&M's with the Marzan influence and the one-piece bells also seem to have the wider taper in the bell stack.

Congratulations on your good fortune.

Rick "envious" Denney

Yes you can use the photos, that's why I posted them! I'll see if I can take some more photos tomorrow.

I measured around the bell stack right below the flange and the Y-M is 19 1/2" in circumference and the York is 19 3/4". The York might look wider than it is because the collar and flange are out of round and is slightly flatten.

Today I washed and cleaned the inside and outside of the tuba, scrubbed the valves down, put some cork spacers on top of the valves to align them and oiled them up. The 4th valve is not in good shape, some idiot beat on the bottom of the valve to try to get it out and cruched in the lower passage thru the valve. I stole a couple valve buttons off of an Olds sousa and put a felt under the head of the screw in the second valve and valves felt pretty good. As it turns out I have 4 old Conn sousaphone mouthpiece bits. So I put all of them together and tapped them up to the leadpipe. So I was surprized... darn if the old beast didn't play pretty good as a three valve horn! But it is a little squirrely do to the funky leadpipe and the crushed air way thru th 4th valve, but way better than I thought it would play.

Now if I can get Dan to finish my Holton I can start on restoring this one.

[iiipopes]

Keep us posted as you polish your gem up to its full glory!