Investing in a Larger horn

[Jarrad-Bittner]

Jarrad Bittner

[WoodSheddin]

A PT-6 is not THAT big.

[iiipopes]

A PT-6 would be considered in the 5/4 category, just as you are describing. One reason for these later M-W creations is to compete with the PT-6.

[SplatterTone]

There is a fair amount of info in this recent thread.
viewtopic.php?t=20508

[Jarrad-Bittner]

Thanks guys.

Sorry, I heard that the Pt-6 was a very large horn like the HB-50. I have never seen one up close.

Thanks for your input.

[pwhitaker]

I recently bought a 1291 5V BBb and it must be just like the CC version because I agree with the above post. If I had this horn 30 years ago I would have never fooled around with the Eb's for quintet and solo work. This horn does it all.

[james]

Not true. There have been more than a few players on 6/4 horns offered big jobs in recent memory....I could compile a list if needed, but I know how much you hate that. I do agree that clarity is a MAJOR issue in these auditions.

[Tubaguy56]

Alan Baer? Gronitz PCK? NY?

The other thing about Pt6's is you have to try out the rotor model, if you try out the rotor and the piston side by side the difference is also incredible. I put my money in for a Gronitz PCM them, I do love them gronitz's

[Wyvern]

If you don't want to go too much larger, you could always consider the PT-20. Although classified 4/4, with its 19" bell (the same diameter at the PT-6) it can certainly produce a big sound. I have found it stands up surprisingly well for low register punch, even compared with the Thor!

I have used it for a couple of large symphony orchestra gigs with good comments.

Jonathan "who has found the PT-20 a great all purpose tuba"

[cjk]

And the verdict....???

' no verdict... The PCK simply isn't a "6/4" tuba.

(13)

I would be interested in a list of people who auditioned with Nirschl 6/4, M-W 2165/2265/Baer, cut-down-or-factory Holton 345, HB York model, PT-7P, (or even) the new Yamaha York model, and were recently offered living-wage full-time full-season orchestra jobs.

bloke "Which '6/4' models did I leave off the list?...OK, add the RM 5/4, just to put one NON-designated 6/4 (but BIG) rotary tuba on the list."

In the pics posted recently of the LA tubafest or whatever, the Baer sure did look PCK sized to me.

[joebob]

Bloke - I know that Mike Roylance (Boston) and Randy Montgomery (Milwaukee) won their jobs on Nirshl Yorks. I know that Craig Knox was using a Nirshl York at some auditions though I'm not sure what he used at Pittsburgh. Steve Campbell was using a VMI 6/4 Culbertson at some auditions though again I'm not sure if he used it at any of the auditions he won (he also has a PT6). I'm sure all four of those guys could play with clarity on just about any horn. Anyone else know about people using 6/4 horns at auditions successfully?

[Rick Denney]

PCK is NOT 6/4? Hmm... At least a BAT?

His Blokeness is stirring the pot by making the distinction in size between a PCK and the standard Yorkophones. (By the way, Joe, I would put the Rudy 5/4 in the PCK category--it is not quite as fat as a Yorkophone). And he puts the PT-6 in the smaller category, too.

I wonder why so many pros who already have gigs are using the big tubas. I don't think it's just a fad. I know that Mike Sanders did so because the instrument was much easier to play (he has said so on Tubenet), compared to his Alex. His sound was noticeably different on the YB--rounder, sweeter, and more present. The Alex was more direct--more of a match for the trombones and less an individual voice. He has never suffered from any lack of clarity on the Yorkbrunner.

But I've heard lots of players who did.

Rick "thinking more of efficiency as the years add up" Denney

[james]

ok Bloke...here it is.

Boston-Nirschl York
Milwaukee-Nirschl York
Pittsburgh-Nirschl York
Cleveland-Yorkbrunner
Naples-Nirschl York
Toledo-MW2165 (unless a recent change was made)

Then you have:
Philly, Colorado, and Minnesota-PT6/PT6p
Ft. Worth, National, New York-Gronitz PCK (all Alan Baer)

*Edit* Despite the above information, which I presented for mere fact at the request of Bloke, I believe the PT6, Gronitz PCK, and Willson are more than big enough, if not too big, for most college students.

-james

[SplatterTone]

First Baptist, Tulsa - Miraphone 191 or Allora 186. On Easter, maybe a ratty Conn 14j to play a bass trombone part. (Yeehaa!) And that's cause I ain't going to spend no big bucks to get high rollin' e-flat.

Jes' tools. Nothin' but tools. It's an aggravation Harbor Freight don't make tubas.

[cambrook]

I haven't followed this thread in detail, but I'd just like to back up what DP and others have said. Unless you play in a very large ensemble there will be more times than you'd imagine where a 6/4 of any description will be simply more tuba than is appropriate. I know you can play soft on a big tuba, and in some settings the extra prescence of these horns is wonderful - they can be the times that remind us all why we play tuba. However, it can be enormously frustrating to be continually "getting the hand" from the conductor because he's hearing more prescence that he expects or wants. Nothing will lose you respect faster than always being "too big/loud/whatever".

Of course if you win the lottery you should consider buying one of everything to cover all possibilities - but in my opinion you have to be playing a lot of big gigs to warrant a 6/4 over a 5/4.

[Wyvern]

Another factor to consider in the purchase of a 6/4 tuba is the conductor's sound concept in the bands, or orchestras you regularly play. In my experience some conductors 'love' the sound of a big tuba, while others prefer a more subdued tuba within the ensemble. I find that to be a BIG factor on in if I take my 6/4, or 4/4 (in one orchestra I play I know the conductor likes the sound of my Neptune as I asked him, while in another I have been asked to use my smaller tuba).

I would suggest if possible borrow or trial a 6/4 with your main ensemble before purchase and tell the conductor what you are doing and ask for their opinion of the sound - they will appreciate you as a musician for doing so, and you will avoid the frustration of forever getting the hand afterwards.

[tubacdk]

' no verdict... The PCK simply isn't a "6/4" tuba.

In the pics posted recently of the LA tubafest or whatever, the Baer sure did look PCK sized to me.

Playing and hearing the Baer and the Yorkies back-to-back, the Baer is clearly the smaller horn. I think it's a large 5/4 - bigger than a PT-6, HB-6. If I owned a Baer and was playing with a large orchestra, I know I'd feel the need for a 4/4 CC at times but never the need for anything bigger than the Baer. I really liked its balance of clarity and breadth.

-ck

[pierso20]

Going back to the original post......

why is it your profs suggested that you needed a bigger horn than the 1291???

I am sure it was suggested for a reason....or perhaps not. Either way, if you have the money to blow and want to..then theres no stopping you. BUT if you are going to make an investment, it is something you need to put more thought into.

It sounds as if you are keeping the miraphone and then getting another larger horn...if this is the case, do you have a smaller "solo horn" yet? Uusually, the step is from a 4/4cc to an F...and then if the occasion calls for it, grab a 6/4...but there isn't always a reason to have one.

IN FACT, my professor recently played with the CSO and a 6/4 horn was required. He had to borrow one because he doesn't have one. He rarely finds a need to use it...so my question for you is.....do you really need a 6/4 horn?? (to get a 5/4 horn while having a 1291 would be silly). Or do you WANT a 6/4 horn??

Believe me..if I had lots of money or I could be GIVEN a 6/4 horn...I WOULD FOR SURE do it..who doesn't love playing a huge tuba...but sometimes it isn't always practical.

And there's my rant....haha

[GC]

The PT-7 is close to the size of the HB-50.

[Wyvern]

Playing and hearing the Baer and the Yorkies back-to-back, the Baer is clearly the smaller horn.

That was exactly my thought when I tried one. Definitely smaller than the 2165 (which I tried back to back with it), or my Neptune. But an excellent tuba with good full tone.