Best BBb "Price no issue" tuba

Tortuba · Post by **Tortuba** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:04 pm

I know this has been discussed several times, but I never have much luck with the TubeNet search function (is it just me?).

My fellow tubist in community band is looking for a new BBb tuba. He currently plays on an Eb but wants to explore the world of BBb. Now, price is no object, he just wants the best damn tuba he can find. He is an accomplished community band player and this purchase will likely be his last. He is buying new and will consider all brands. He is not familiar with the manufacturers and is seeking some considered advice. OK, if you were in his shoes, what would you buy?

The same fellow is traveling to Europe shortly and would like to visit the manufacturers and maybe buy a horn there. Again, I know there has been discussion about which manufacturers are open to travelers and potential buyers but I cannot find the links. Please supply some names or the appropriate links.

Thanks

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:23 pm

Not to throw a monkey wrench in the works....

Your friend has experience with the Eb- why not have a look at the Miraphone Norwegian Star EEb? Oystein Baadsvik was instrumental in its design and went through 5 prototypes before calling it a finished product. He uses it (and the Star Light EEb solo horn) for his work.

It's a 5/4 EEb horn but it's about the size of a 3/4 BBb horn and, according to Baadsvik, plenty of sound to stand in for a CC in many situations.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:02 pm

Tortuba wrote:My fellow tubist in community band is looking for a new BBb tuba. He currently plays on an Eb but wants to explore the world of BBb. Now, price is no object, he just wants the best damn tuba he can find. He is an accomplished community band player and this purchase will likely be his last.

I have no concept of a purchase being the last, but there you go.

If he wants a single BBb tuba that can do everything, then I don't think I can recommend a big tuba. But if he wants a big tuba to supplement a general-purpose Eb, then I can.

For a tuba pushing the 6/4 category, I would recommend the Meinl-Weston Fafner. It's a great tuba in the Kaiser category. The Willson 3100 is about as big, but I find it an ergonomic nightmare and too hard to play. Like the 3050, it doesn't give you much feedback. Pros can deal with that, but I struggle with it.

The Gronitz PBK could be great like the PCK, but I've never seen or played one. I suspect they are made to order, and pricey enough so that orders are rare. But the PCK is a great tuba.

In the 5/4 category, the Miraphone 191 has a devoted following. I find it takes a lot of air, but then so does the Fafner. And so does my Holton. The Miraphone seems much better to me as a Holton player than it used to. A B&M Symphonic 5500 is also a great largish 4/4 tuba from yesteryear, but they are hard to find now.

In the smaller end of the 4/4 category, the King 2341 is hard to beat, even though it may not be expensive enough for him.

Rick "who would want a Fafner if he didn't have the Holton" Denney

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:20 pm

...and no one mentioned the Rudi Meinl 6/4.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:58 pm

Price no issue?

Wonder what you could buy for the amount that you'd spend to purchase the "Christian Hammer" Strad?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:33 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:...and no one mentioned the Rudi Meinl 6/4.

No, but the 5/4 should be a serious consideration.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:11 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:...and no one mentioned the Rudi Meinl 6/4.

It's definitely awesome, and it fully falls into the money is no object category, but its greatness has to be kept in context.

Such as, "for a tuba the size of a 1963 Cadillac, it's surprisingly playable."

Rick "surprised he could get sounds out of it at all" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:13 pm

Mark wrote:
Chuck(G) wrote:...and no one mentioned the Rudi Meinl 6/4.
No, but the 5/4 should be a serious consideration.

And it would, if it wasn't sitting next to the Fafner.

Rick "noting that they are both about the same size" Denney

Stefan Kac · Post by **Stefan Kac** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:18 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new King 2341's. I've played a total of four of these over the years (two at conferences, two owned by acquaintances) and it blows me away everytime. Most recently, a student of mine who was looking for a horn found one used. I urged them to buy it, which they did. After playing it briefly at the next lesson, I gave myself a giant pat on the back; I think it plays even better than the 186 that I sold last year. Give it some thought.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:22 pm

Rick Denney wrote:
Mark wrote:
Chuck(G) wrote:...and no one mentioned the Rudi Meinl 6/4.
No, but the 5/4 should be a serious consideration.
And it would, if it wasn't sitting next to the Fafner.

Rick "noting that they are both about the same size" Denney

I take it that you think the Fafner is better. Is that correct?

Also, do you really think two are similar is size? I played the Fafner at ITEC and it was definitely bigger than my Miraphone 191; but I didn't think it was a big as the Rudy (which should be about the same size as your Holton).

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:30 am

Mark wrote:Also, do you really think two are similar is size? I played the Fafner at ITEC and it was definitely bigger than my Miraphone 191; but I didn't think it was a big as the Rudy (which should be about the same size as your Holton).

The Rudy 5/4 is just a little bit narrower than the Holton, though the different wrap hides that a bit. The Fafner is about the same size, it seems to me. But I've never compared them side-by-side.

The Rudy 5/4 CC that Ray Grim now owns is a great tuba: Fun to play, great sound, etc. In Bb, though, I'd probably take the Fafner, based on the sampling I got when I spent some time at Balto Brass.

Rick "really impressed with the Fafner" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:34 am

Stefan Kac wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new King 2341's.

Read my post again.

The only fault of the King is its small size, assuming you get a good one. It might not be different enough from a general-purpose Eb to be useful in this case. But if that's the size the guy wants, then that's the horn to get.

Rick "thinking the King is to Bb what the Getzen G-50 is to C" Denney

IOS · Post by **IOS** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:03 am

Let us not forget the Hirsbrunner HB5 - a big heavy horn, 5 rotary valves, and one enormous sound. Oh yeah, and also really expensive ($16K).

Tubaguyjoe · Post by **Tubaguyjoe** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:35 pm

I would also say a Melton 195 "Fafner" or for a little more I personally think the 197 is better.

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:46 pm

I have played on and would recommend:
MW 25 (my personal favorite)
MW Fafner (played a demo model and was blown away)
Miraphone 187

I'm sure there are many other good options out there.

I don't know why the Miraphone 191 is so popular. Granted, I have only played one but it was a total dog.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:45 pm

Granted, I have only played one but it was a total dog.

Were the batteries charged up? The extra bass power is a serious drain on the batteries. If they aren't fully charged, performance suffers.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:55 pm

Biggs wrote:I have only played one but it was a total dog.

With all the Chinese pet food trouble, that could be a problem!

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:23 pm

If price is no issue, then....

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:37 pm

If he is planning to only have one BBb horn, then I would think that he would want one of the top of the line standard 4/4 horns like the Miraphone 186 or the MW-25. These have been the standard by which BBb horns have been compared to for years. I have played both horns, and from my playing level, they both were great horns. I would also ask him if he will want to be lugging some 5/4 horn to band in another 15 years. I would think that it would be more versatile to stay with horn with ~.770 bore range no matter what brand. We had a local band where the tuba player was in his upper 90's, he finally had to have someone carry the horn for him, and also use a smaller horn that didn't take so much air. Just my $.02, and probably not worth that much.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:22 pm

Very interesting replies, although everyone has had to guess at the musical goals of the original shopper.

For a person for whom price is no limitation, the first thing that should be purchased is some in-person expert advice. Find a sympathetic and excellent teacher; have a few lessons, and get that teacher to help with a tuba purchase. Another thing a person without financial limitations can afford is trips to stores with a large group of tubas to try (along with good resident tuba specialists). Dillon's and Baltimore Brass should be on the shoping list (see the TubeNet Shops page). Put an inquiry out about whether Roger Lewis is set up yet for demonstrating tubas.

If the shopper in question is going to be playing only in community band, with its requirement for the tubas furnishing a solid and deep bass sound, then a 5/4 to 6/4 size instrument is probably the best musical choice. However, there may be other good reasons for choosing a 4/4 size tuba, including how much air you can furnish and how much weight you are willing to schlep around.

Another thought: Does your shopper friend already play BBb fluently? If he has to learn a new set of fingerings anyway, a CC tuba is a possibility, opening up more choices, as well as opportunities to spend plenty of money.

Cheers,
Allen

Best BBb "Price no issue" tuba

Best BBb "Price no issue" tuba

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