Russian Christmas Music

OldsRecording · Post by **OldsRecording** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:40 pm

A while ago I heard on the radio a recording of Reed's "Russian Christmas Music" played by (as I recall) one of the Air Force bands. The only thing that bothered me was in the slow, lyrical section with the walking bass line (scored for double bass). This paticular band apparently did not have a double bass, and thus, the part was played on tuba. Now, don't get me wrong- I love the tuba (where am I again? Oh yeah...

), but it was just entirely the wrong sound. Any thoughts?

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:55 pm

I think that how effective the part is on tuba is largely dependent on the skills of the tuba player. It is imperative that the tuba player "imitate" the sound of the string bass. Done correctly, it can sound 99% like a string bass. It is not easy to do, but it is possible.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:08 pm

One of my biggest gripes with many NON_PROFESSIONAL tubists is their misguided interpretation of a string bass part - they play extremely short, clipped, and tongue-stopped at the end; far from the resonant pluck of a real wooden bass.

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:10 pm

Just a question, why on earth would anyone ever want to make a tuba sound like a string bass? Or vis-a-vis?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:08 pm

ZNC Dandy wrote:Just a question, why on earth would anyone ever want to make a tuba sound like a string bass? Or vis-a-vis?

Prior to the invention of the electronic microphone, tubas were used to replace string basses because the sound of a string bass wasn't loud enough to be picked up by the weak acoustic mikes used before that time (circa 1929). Every popular band in the twenties had a tuba player--Paul Whiteman had two tuba players.

The recording bass (never call it a recording tuba) was developed around 1907 so that the tuba bell could be aimed at the acoustical microphone. (recording bass--it replaces the string bass...)

I have some recordings made in 1922 of all nine Beethoven symphonies. The double bass section was replaced by six tubas. This was a great sound!

Does this answer your question?

This has been mentioned here before.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:55 pm

I did the same thing with the an Army Band at the Frankfurt AlteOper in a broadcast concert- we had a string bass player, but he didn't react well to the rubato our conductor used during that section. The real killer for me was sneaking the breaths. Bottom line: you do what you have to do to pull the piece off. No, you don't always have the luxury of the instrumentation you want/need, so you have to make do to pull off a performance.

Roger Lewis · Post by **Roger Lewis** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:23 pm

is a true challenge for a low brass musician. I've had to play this several times over the years with various groups and I usually spend some time listening to pizzacato strings for a while to get the sound of the style into my ear. The important thing is the dacay of the note. You can "sniff" bearthe between the notes if you have good sinus function. Follow the line and obey the music, dig hard for the low stuff.

A truly great piece of music and orchestration.

Just mu $0.02
Roger

Tom Holtz · Post by **Tom Holtz** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:20 pm

the elephant wrote:I will happily play Russian Christmas Music any time I am asked... What wonderful music.

Yessir. Any time, any place.

bort · Post by **bort** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:17 am

The last two times I've played it, the director wanted string bass, or nothing at all...and there was no string bass player.

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:59 am

I have listened to recordings and have been completely unaware that the bass was a tuba. As stated, if you can find yo' brefs and get close to that sound, a rightous tuba man can play "bass"and your average listener may never know or care.
My music teacher friend played string bass with the New Orleans Symphony for ten years and had a chance to play and record with the Dirty Dozen Brass Band-replacing the very strong tuba man for a week.
He struggled a bit with the first two tunes he played on his string bass. Somewhere in the third tune he played, he started to see the heads nodding as all felt the communications linking up and a cook ensued.

I believe tuba is harder work but it's a bass and can sound ginger peachy on almost anything.

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:50 am

I think I may have come across as a bit of a tool in my original post, for that I apologize. What I was getting at is that composers write for different instruments for a reason, to get a different tone quality. Yeah...that sounds better

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:37 pm

the elephant wrote:
bloke wrote:...the ORCHESTRAL transcription
Who did the transcription? When? Is it as good as the original band piece? (My personal experience with band transcriptions is that parts written for brass and woodwinds sound really lame on strings.)

Please reveal the info you have about this transcription!!!!

I've played the orchestral transcription two or three times and I do believe that it is as good as the band version. The transcription is by Clark McAlister.

Mark Horne · Post by **Mark Horne** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:06 pm

Not necessarily looking to bring up an old thread, but a forum search on "pizz" led me here - which is the precise piece of music that my question is related to. We are playing Russian Christmas Music at the end of this month and, having no string bass, will be covering the pizz cues on tuba. For those unfamiliar with this music, the section I'm referring to is a quiet legato woodwind choir playing above a bed of running eighth notes scored for solo pizzicato string bass. Clearly intended for string bass, this extended series of scales, arpeggios and jumps spans two octaves and affords no natural places to take a full breath. No doubt this will require a tuba player's "best" pizzicato technique.

My question is - what approach(es) do you use when you're really trying to nail that pizzicato sound?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:18 pm

Mark Horne wrote:My question is - what approach(es) do you use when you're really trying to nail that pizzicato sound?

I have played Russian Christmas Music with orchestras several times. It is a very nice work. My suggestiion is hire a string bass player.

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:36 pm

All well and good, but please: where do you BREATHE?

I've done it both ways, and I *much* prefer to listen to the string bass play it...

a full page of 6-beat....sheesh!

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:37 pm

And...could someone please tell the Russians that Christmas is a HAPPY time?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:08 pm

I love-love-love this piece. But, too many times I have heard individuals or even whole tuba sections try to do the string bass pizz. cues. And, at least half of them just plain couldn't play it. Only they tried to at concert time. If you consistently miss lots of notes either
a) don't play the part or
b) PRACTICE
swallow your ego!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:32 pm

I'm doing this one this year. We have no string bass player and we won't have one. But I can play these well enough not to be embarrassed doing so, even on the Holton (or perhaps especially on the Holton). Given my limitations as a player, I conclude that it does not require a high-end performer to make music here.

Trick 1: Don't take big breaths except the first one. Take small breaths more often. If you get into deficit, leave a note out to take a big breath. Don't break tempo to breathe.

Trick 2: Play very softly. This helps with the breathing, and with the music. The tuba has no competition here.

Trick 3: Do not attempt a jazz pizzicato sound, which I play using a continuous stream of air articulated by a nearly un-tongued pulse of air at the beginning of the note. In this application, that sort of legato doesn't seem to me necessary. But I do tongue the notes with a soft D sound rather than a T sound so that the gaps I leave don't sound like interruptions.

Trick 4: Don't think of it as six notes in each measure, with six articulations and six places where a breath might need to be inserted. Doing so will rob the part of any direction. Think of it as an unbroken string of six pulses (or 60+ pulses), with frequent small breaths being part of the string. Never break the string. Think through to the end of the phrase, always.

I never play this if a string bass player is available, but when there isn't, I look forward to it. It's a place where the tuba player can show a bit of musicality and finesse rather than his ability to rearrange building structures.

I should never, of course, be played by more than one person. Ever. Two equal players can, however, stagger it, but only if they can do so without breaking the string.

Rick "thinking about this music to train the mind, while in Sao Paulo and unable to practice it" Denney

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:12 am

As usual, I believe Rick has covered the playing of the string bass cues very well. When I am asked to play this, I actually use a light "tu" tongue, with gentle puffs of air. This is not to say that I tongue the notes hard, which I don't. And he is absolutely correct about the approach to breathing.

We performed this last Christmas in the San Antonio Wind Symphony. I played the part in all the rehearsals, with a string bass player showing up for the concert. HE butchered it! I was having a fit sitting there, helplessly, listening to him destroy it. Needless to say, this was incredibly frustrating.

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:45 pm

OK, I've never had to play it before but a community band a play in read through it a couple weeks ago. The conductor changed their mind on how to conduct this section halfway through the reading and wanted to conduct it in half time, which made the tuba part four notes to the beat. I found this very hard to get comfortable with, it was very hard to react to any use of rubato. So my question is, how "should" it be conducted?

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