Help me ID my horn and reccommend a case

schleifdog · Post by **schleifdog** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:11 am

So, all you Conn historians out there, I got a confusing one for you.

I just purchased what was advertised as a Conn 20K Sousaphone from Woodwinds and Brasswinds. The serial number is in the H11000 range, so it dates to about 1966.

Here's the confusing part; on the bell, the horn says 20J, instead of 20K. What's going on? 20J is a tuba, not a sousaphone, right?

Other than that, it has all the markings of a 20K; offset short action valves, etc.

Were there a few weird production years there?

The main reason I'm trying to figure this out is because I'm trying to get a case for it, and I want to make sure the horn will fit the case I buy.

Which brings me to my second question; What kind of sousaphone case can you trust on a flight to Europe?

Sylvano · Post by **Sylvano** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:45 am

The SKB case is quite good.
As for gig bags, the Protec is great.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:01 pm

If it is a 20J bell, I'm betting that they have the same size collar, and being replaced may have little or no effect on the performance of your instrument.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:13 pm

I don't know about that. It's not just the diameter of the collar, but the effective length of the bell on an imaginary line going through the center curving from the plane of the collar to the plane of the bell rim. If it's too short or too long compared to a souzy bell, it will play sharp or flat accordingly.

Then again, maybe conn used the same bell for the 2XJ as the 20k souzy. Anybody care to guess?

BTW: what's the diameter of the rim of the bell? Souzys are 26 inches, 2XJ tubas I believe are 24 or 22. That will start to tell you what kind of differences there are.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:35 pm

iiipopes wrote:If it's too short or too long compared to a souzy bell, it will play sharp or flat accordingly

... depending on the flair, the opening, and a whole bunch of other variables!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:46 pm

A 20J (tuba) and a 20K (sousa) both the same bell tenons and collars. BUT... the bells are different. The 20K (sousa) has a right-angled transition and the 20J (tuba) is more like a 45 degree angle. IF the bell you have does indeed have a 90 degree transition, like a sousa should have, then someone has replaced the bell tenon with one from a 20J. Won't hurt a thing. However, if you bell angles up a bit... you have a 20J bell assembly. If you have the 20J bell assembly, it's likely to look a little odd and possibly play a little sharp. Can you post a picture? ... or just email it to me.

schleifdog · Post by **schleifdog** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:54 pm

The more I look at it and read how people have responded, I have to assume that this is the bell from a 20J transplanted onto my 20K. A little annoying/disappointing I must say, since it was sold to me as a completely restored 20K by WoodwindBrasswind.

Here are the clues I'm picking up on, but please correct me if I'm wrong:
-The bell does not make a right angle.
-The bell has three strips of bracing on it, as opposed to just one, which, as I look at horns on the web seems to be a consistent difference between 20Ks and 20Js.
-The bell diameter is only 24", as opposed to the 26" that most 20K seem to be advertised as having.

Let me know if you want more pictures.

The horn plays pretty well in tune, but it does go a little sharp in the upper register. I feel a little swindled on this. If I ever want to resell, I'm going to tell my buyer that they're getting a 20J bell, which will make the value plummet. I'm sure it was oversight by WWBW, but still...

schleifdog · Post by **schleifdog** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:19 pm

Arrggh!

Three questions:
Do you think I should take this up with Woodwind/Brasswinds' service department?
Anybody got a 20k bell for sale?
Anybody need a 20J bell?