BBb, CC, Eb, F

[LoyalTubist]

There has been some confusion here as to the names tubas are given according to their key. Let me tell you the way I was taught and you all can compare.

The reason for the double letters has to do with the fundamental and its distance to middle C. An octave goes from C to B. The middle C is written as a lower case c. The next C is written as CC. The next is written CCC and so on. (Going the other way they are marked: c', c'', c''', and so on.)

So it's BBb, a C, an Eb, and an F. However, because the C and Bb are so close together, to avoid confusion, we call the C tuba a CC tuba.

That's all I use to call the tubas what they are. Anything else confuses me.

Bill

[Gravid]

viewtopic.php?t=21156

[LoyalTubist]

Compare the times. This was up first. And besides, this is much too complicated for my simple mind.

[Chuck(G)]

Regardless, Besson in the 1970's started calling its high-end basses EEb. So things aren't quite that organized.

Why not just call them "C contra", 'Bb contra", "Eb bass" and "F bass"?

[Gravid]

This may have been posted first, but it likely wasn't begun first. In any event, if you had this knowledge to begin with (even if we disagree by one octave), why not simply post it in the original thread, instead of taunting the original poster?

[LoyalTubist]

I am not ignorant, but I am old fashioned. And I am the original poster of this thread. It's just something that bothers me.

I had this same discussion when I was in college as a tuba major and when I took my comps in tuba for my M.M. degree, when it asked me to describe the differences between the tubas--and I got the highest grade in the school.

Please don't think me to be taunting. I am very honest in what I am saying.

And I sign my name to this post,

Bill

[TubaRay]

I have to agree with James(above) that this is all a silly argument, but it does raise some interesting questions concerning the conventional terms for the various tubas. I must admit that among my circle of friends, we simply call them C, Bb, Eb, and F tubas. We all know what is meant by these designations.

[iiipopes]

Another reason a CC tuba is called such was to distinguish it from the C French 6-valve tuba.

[finnbogi]

I must admit that among my circle of friends, we simply call them C, Bb, Eb, and F tubas.

Yes, that works for my crowd as well.

[The Big Ben]

I rather prefer DP's take on the matter...

[DCottrell]

This discussion, and many other like ones relating to language usage, is fundamentally irrelevant. It is splitting hairs. (or Pulling them re: DP's picture).

Since there is no reason to distinguish a C F Eb tuba from any other C F Eb tuba, there is no reason to quibble over nomenclature. In other words, all of the terms mean the same thing. If I say (or write) "C tuba", "CC tuba", or "C3 tuba", they refer to only one instrument. The "French C tuba" is almost universally referred to as such, to distinguish it from the instrument pitched an octave lower. It is never referred to as a "C tuba". The difference between the instruments is reflected in the difference between the terms used to describe them (i.e, the addition of the word "French").

Nobody calls euphoniums "Bb tubas" in common parlance so there is no reason to distinguish the "BBb tuba" from the "Bb tuba." If there is no distinction in meaning between the terms "BBb tuba" and "Bb tuba", they mean the same thing.

Since there is no (commony known) instrument pitched an octave lower than an "F tuba", and the instruments pitched an octave higher are not called "tubas", there is no reason to distinguish between the terms "F tuba" and "FF tuba". Same with "Eb tuba".

Any exception to the meaninglessness of these distinctions is always understood from the context of the statement.

If the distinction between the names is meaningless, the discussion over the names is meaningless.

[kegmcnabb]

If I were on a break at a gig and it is then time to return to the bandstand, the leader would say, "Joe, get your horn!"

bloke "The message is quite clear to me."

[Rick Denney]

Setting aside the temptation to be derisive...

Tubas are what they are. We use words to name them, so that people will know what we are talking about. We don't change the instrument to suit the words.

If we find that "C tuba" is often confused with that C euphonium that's also called a "C tuba", then we will qualify one usage or the other. In France, we might call the bigger instrument [adopting a Clouseau accent] a contrabass tuba in C, to distinguish from the instrument that is common to us. In the U.S., we might call the smaller instrument a "small French tuba in C" to distinguish from the assumed meaning of "C tuba". When a French tuba player talks to an American, they wave their arms a lot and work it out.

Of course, the small French tuba in C is now obsolete even in France, so I think most people will think big when you say "C tuba".

We call it a BBb tuba because that's what we are used to calling it. People know what we mean.

Besson called their compensated Eb tuba an EEb tuba for reasons that make sense only in Edgeware. So be it. But if I say I have a Besson Eb tuba, everyone will know what I mean.

And when a German says he plays a BB tuba, even most Americans will know what he means.

There is only confusion when someone uses something we aren't used to, such as "FF tuba". But I knew what the guy in that other thread meant, and so did everyone else. If someone was genuinely confused, a simple question such as "you mean a bass tuba in F, right?" would resolve the matter.

If I was writing, say, a Wikipedia article, then I would try to use something that is organologically clear to people who don't know our jargon. I've always supported what Chuck suggested: contrabass tuba in Bb (or C), and bass tuba in Eb (or F). That terminology has been with us for, oh, about 150 years. I further support the general categorical label "tenor tuba" to encompass all of what we call traditional American baritones, euphoniums, and rotary tenor tubas.

Rick "noting that conveying meaning is the only purpose of words" Denney

[SplatterTone]

Tenor Tuba.
Cornet = Countertenor Tuba.
Chinese = Bargain Counter Tuba.

[windshieldbug]

Flugelhorn = Piccolo Tuba
Chinese = Pi cdbo Tu a

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Not to "muddy" things up any further, but my understanding is that the designation of F, Eb, & BBb, refers to the second partial notes, that the instrument more commonly plays.

As lovely as the pedal notes are, not everyone can play them, so I think the designations stemmed from the "low open note" that was in use commonly, not the pedal note.

Having said that, the designation CC is just goofy. I suppose people adopted it, just to make clear that it was closer in pitch to the BBb, than to the Eb, or F, but technically (acording to that system of pitch naming) it should be refered to a simply a C tuba, not CC.

[windshieldbug]

Well, then should a BBb be a "BbBb"?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

What I never liked is people referring to notes as pedals when they're not. Like "pedal D" on a Bb tuba, when it's just the second one under the clef.

I can understand your being irked by the mislabeling of pedal notes, but with regard to my particular post, I was referring to the actual pedal tones, on those respective instruments.

[sloan]

Another reason a CC tuba is called such was to distinguish it from the C French 6-valve tuba.

Wouldn't that be a "c tuba"?

[Kevin Hendrick]

Another reason a CC tuba is called such was to distinguish it from the C French 6-valve tuba.

Wouldn't that be a "c tuba"?

¡Si!