Satin Silver King 2341 Many Thanx

[TubaingAgain]

Does anyone have one or seen one? Opinion ?? Iam going to buy a new King 2341 very soon just can't decide lacquer or Satin Silver

[Steve Inman]

I have a s.s. Conn 56J. I love the appearance. But it does require a good polish once a year (maybe once every 6 months would be better).

The trick I learned was to polish well, then take it outside and wash thoroughly with a good dish washer liquid detergent. Otherwise the black silver oxide that the polish breaks loose from the silver plate will take forever to completely rub off of the horn.

For ease of maintenance, I would recommend the lacquer finish. For appearance, the satin silver is nice. I don't know if King makes the BBb with this option or not. Their web site should say.

Regards,

[Captain Sousie]

Does anyone have one or seen one?

Opinion ??

My opinion is that the preceding question was durn near unintelligible.

Iam going to buy a new King 2341 very soon

Good for you. They are pretty good horns in general.

just can't decide lacquer or Satin Silver

That is really just a matter of taste and how much work you want to do to keep it pretty.

Good luck whichever way you go.

Sou

[GC]

I had one of the early ones. It looked great, but the tarnish problem was a bear. The valves have next to no clearance around them and were very difficult to clean; you have to snake gauze or narrow strips of cloth around them to do a good job.

The modern finish is very coarse compared to older satin finishes, so the pits are larger and the finish feels a bit rough. That means that after cleaning, more polish and tarnish lodge in the pits and will rub off on your hands and pants for a while if you don't wash the horn.

Bloke suggested mixing silver polish with liquid detergent before polishing, and then hosing the whole mess off. Another shop suggested spraying it with Simple Green after polishing and then hosing, but that prompted another poster to say that Simple Green is too corrosive for silver finishes. I tried both methods, and both worked pretty well.

If you're careful to use a polish with a tarnish inhibitor, you'll go longer between cleanings. The effect seem to be cumulative, too.

I eventually got rid of the King because I had serious difficulty playing it in tune. It certainly got attention, though.

[Liberty Mo]

I had a modified version of one for a few years until this January. I sold it because I wanted a pro bass bone, and had a Miraphone 186 that met my tuba needs.

A few things from my experience:

1. Try several and do not buy without playing. Make a trip to a location where you can play test several. The good examples are some of the best BBbs around, the bad ones can be really bad. Sadly, I would say the mix of good and bad horns comming out of King are 50/50. The fit and finish of some of the horns coming off their assembly lines makes me wonder if they have quality control. Your more reputable sellers (Dillons, BBC will not sell the duds).

2. If you purchase one, there are several inexpensive modifications that you can do to make it much easier to use...installation of more spit valves and nylon valve guides for instance. The water pooling below the 4th valve is a royal pain. My King had spit valves on below every valve slide. I also had the valves vented, nylon valve guides installed, a Dillon AGR, and a 5th rotory valve. The AGR and 5th valve were luxuries…..damn that was a great horn.

3. Having played all 3 of the 4 finish options (lacquer, silver, and satin silver....I have never seen a satin gold 2341, but it can be had if you want to wait), I cannot make a discernable difference in the sound between finishes. My ear may not be as well trained as others, but then again, I subscribe to the idea that unless you are in the top 1% of players, the finish of the horn has nothing to do with your sound, and you ability has everything to do with the sound.

4. Try several mouthpieces, it is a very sensative horn in this respect. The Laskey 30h, Helleberg variety, and Marcink. N4 all work well. Supposedly the horn is made to work with the Helleberg. What the heck that means, I don’t know, I have never understood how a tuba can be designed to be compatable with a particular mouthpiece. Maybe someone can shed some light on this “advertising nuggetâ€

[GC]

To add some things to what LibertyMo said:

There were a lot of solder splatters on my horn. In many ways, the workmanship on the horn was sloppy.

The valves felt like gravel until they broke in, and they were fine afterward.

The receiver was oversized. The UMI 2 mouthpiece that came with it was a perfect fit, but several other mouthpieces that I tried had shanks too small to fit. You might have to use large shank mouthpieces exclusively. I've heard varying reports over the years about this on other 2341s. I'd take several mouthpieces with you when you go to try out the horn. I wouldn't buy without trying.

The second valve slide was cut much too long. It was extremely difficult to play the horn in tune without way too much lipping up and down.

I had to pull slides to dump water, and had to turn the horn twice clockwise to get water out of the 4th valve where it puddled. The tubing is nested so tightly that I couldn't find a place to add a spit valve to relieve this problem.

I sold my 2341 and bought an early 1960's Conn 25J. It's a bear to carry around and looks pretty rough, but it plays much better in tune. With my playing deficiencies, it's a much better horn for me.

[Rick Denney]

The modern finish is very coarse compared to older satin finishes, so the pits are larger and the finish feels a bit rough. That means that after cleaning, more polish and tarnish lodge in the pits and will rub off on your hands and pants for a while if you don't wash the horn.

Yes. Seeing one up close turned me off to the idea.

Kings are not particularly consistent, nor are they always well-adjusted from the factory. I've played examples that were great, and those that howled at the moon, particularly when the fourth valve was pressed.

Rick "who would prefer lacquer for this one" Denney

[Alex F]

I am now seriously considering the purchase of a 2341. I've been holding out hope for the arrival of these MW HoJo tubas (2011) but, for some inexplicable reason, they don't seem to be comming anytime soon, if ever. Even if they do, the new MW pricing structure ($4.6k for lacquer with NO case) makes these much less of the value horn they were described as. I can get the KIng in lacquer with a case for that price.

It seems to me that these horns have to come from a place like Dillon or BBC given their reputation for inconsistency. I don't think Matt or Dave will let a horn go out that is not as playable as it can be. The other alternative is to buy one and set aside some serious $$ for someone like Lee Stofer or Joe Sellmansberger to tweak it. I find it hard to believe that the folks at Conn-Selmer are unaware of these issues - it seems that it's cheaper to let a dog slide through and fix it if the buyer starts growling later. This however is also the case with their trombones and other instruments as well - just read your forum du jour

While the advice of "try before you buy" is sage, the reality is that it's hard to find any shop with even one of these on hand to try. The days when dealers had a bunch to choose from are also gone, and that includes some of our favorite places.

[TubaingAgain]

Thanx to all that replied. After many long conversations with Matt, from Dillions, I have decided to wait on buying a King. I really had my heart set on a Miraphone 186 5 valve. I don't want to just settle for any horn, and that was what I was going to do with the King, settle. So I will wait just a little longer and save the remaining amout to get the Miraphone. I can't say enough about Matt. His professionalism and commitment to a satisfied customer is above the rest.

[Rick Denney]

It seems to me that these horns have to come from a place like Dillon or BBC given their reputation for inconsistency. I don't think Matt or Dave will let a horn go out that is not as playable as it can be. The other alternative is to buy one and set aside some serious $$ for someone like Lee Stofer or Joe Sellmansberger to tweak it. I find it hard to believe that the folks at Conn-Selmer are unaware of these issues - it seems that it's cheaper to let a dog slide through and fix it if the buyer starts growling later.

It's a matter of price point. If the Kings cost as much as, say, a Miraphone 1291, they could do the same finish work that they do with the Conn 56J. But if it cost that much, we wouldn't have the King at all, I suspect.

A former section mate bought a King a few years back, and the first one he got had issues. At the advice of me and others, he took it back to the store within the week and told them it was unacceptable. They traded him out for a new one which was excellent. It would have taken a lot of shop tweaking to solve the problems of the first one.

I would have an understanding with any dealer that I had the option to reject a new instrument bought on order. But that's only fair if I am committed to actually buying a King when a good one is delivered. Some dealers don't do that just because it's too often abused.

Had my section mate asked first, I would have directed him to BBC instead of the store he used. He would never have had an issue, of course, and with good timing he might have even had a choice of good ones in stock.

Rick "who thinks the later examples are more consistent than the first year's batch of the new model" Denney