Mouthpiece Buzzing

Tubainsauga · Post by **Tubainsauga** » Sun May 27, 2007 10:04 pm

I have a question. I've been working through most of the exercises in the Bobo "Mastering the Tuba" book. They're all helping my playing a fair bit, but I still can't do the mouthpiece buzzing exercise. I buzz some of the notes at pitch but can't actually do the exercise effectively and there are some notes that simply don't sound without added resistance. Any tips or is it just a matter of practicing until it works? From the writing in the book, it sounds like it shouldn't quite take as much work as it is. (For context, I'm a 3rd year university performance major and my tone is generally regarded as my strongest asset as a player, so I don't think, but am not ruling out the possibility, that it is a fundamental problem with the way I'm playing). Thanks.

Mojo workin' · Post by **Mojo workin'** » Sun May 27, 2007 11:55 pm

THINK ONLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE, NOT WHAT IT FEELS LIKE!

Play by sound, not by feel.

Sound is criterion for how you do this or that.

There is nothing wrong with your chops, your mind is messing them up. High register is no more physical than low, it should be as easy and sound just as good. Don't make such an issue of it. This habit must be worked out and will eventually go away, however there is only one way to get rid of this bad habit, and that is to apply concepts every day in your playing.
After working on the mouthpiece, do the same on the horn. Play everything from excerpts to to pop tunes on it to do things musically. Remember you are performing these pieces, and not practicing them.

Tonguing has to be 5% consonant and 95% vowel. To much tongue inhibits the air flow. Use no more tongue than in normal speech, and release air immediately.

DON'T THINK YOU HAVE PROBLEMS TO WORRY ABOUT IN YOUR PLAYING, JUST CERTAIN ASPECTS OF YOUR PLAYING AREN'T PERFECTED YET. DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING IN YOUR PLAYING, JUST ENJOY IT!

Practice on the mouthpiece every day before your regular session. Walk around and play anything musical (no drills) from excerpts to pop tunes. Concentrate on being very musical on these pieces, and most important, on a very LARGE SOUND on the mouthpiece.

Play no drills on the mouthpiece, only music.

I would rather jump right in and make mistakes than be timid.

Sound is criterion for how you play and whether you are doing things right.

-BUD HERSETH

Captain Sousie · Post by **Captain Sousie** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:29 am

Tubainsauga wrote:there are some notes that simply don't sound without added resistance

I have found two solutions to this problem.

1) Play the buzzing exercises with a little bit of tubing on the end of the mouthpiece such as a couple of sousaphone bits.

2) if the above is not an option, just look at it as a range building exercise. Your range will build but it will be slow going and incredible discouraging but it will get there eventually.

Either way, good luck.
Sou

Arkietuba · Post by **Arkietuba** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:56 am

Personally I don't feel buzzing is as essential as a lot of people make it out to be. I know I'm in the minority in this statement but this comes from personal experience. Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't use it as a practice tool, b/c it can be useful but in my experience I find that people/professors place too much focus on it.

I have a horrible free buzz (and I have worked at it, even in master classes and private lessons w/ the best tuba/euphonium players in the world) but I've been told by every single one of them that I have a superb tone and great articulation and so on and so forth. I just can't buzz on the mouthpiece for the life of me. All I hear from instructors is "if you can buzz it you can play it"...I'm gonna have to call "bull s**t" on that. There is way more involved w/ playing passages than the buzzing. I know plenty of players that are fantastic buzzers but they can't play all that well and their tone is...lacking. In my experience I've accomplished a lot and I'm still accomplishing a ton w/: a horrible free buzz and an "incorrect embouchure".

If you truely are a good player than you probably shouldn't worry TOO much about buzzing. If you have a good tone, than why change it? If it works for you, don't mess w/ it...

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:51 am

Captain Sousie wrote:1) Play the buzzing exercises with a little bit of tubing on the end of the mouthpiece such as a couple of sousaphone bits.

In stead of the sousaphone bits, you can use a short piece (5-10 cm) of a soft rubber hose.

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:48 am

Arkietuba wrote:Personally I don't feel buzzing is as essential as a lot of people make it out to be. I know I'm in the minority in this statement but this comes from personal experience. etc..

I've met many professional tuba players and they all regard mouthpiece buzzing as an essential element in their playing. If a student is not having success playing the mouthpiece, the search should not be abandoned.

As to the original post: buzzing in the low register (below the staff) is an advanced technique. Maybe the Bobo book is not the best standard to judge your success or failure against.

I thought Mojo workin' had a terrific post on buzzing (above), almost as well as it could be stated in print.

skinnytuba · Post by **skinnytuba** » Mon May 28, 2007 12:33 pm

Something that really helped me, and Doc also said this, was to get the two Jacobs CD's. He does some buzzing on them. I know when I first started buzzing exercises I didn't know what a good buzz sounded like. I was amazed at how much Jacobs' buzz actually sounded like his tone, and how rich and full it was.

Sometimes having a sonic image can help the brain know what to do.

The only other thing I can suggest is daily practice on the mouthpiece alone.

Hope this helps!

Arkietuba · Post by **Arkietuba** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:01 pm

Okay, I said "from my personal experience"...

The pros that have told me that buzzing is really important have also told me that it seems like having a "poor buzz" really hasn't held me back or affected my playing aversely. I know it can be a useful tool to have but I think people put too much emphasis on it.

From talking to other tuba players I've come to realize that I'm really weird: I've never listened to a tuba cd until last year when I was 20 years old, I've never heard a recording of me playing until a few months ago, I have a bad "free buzz", I have an "incorrect embouchure" and I naturally do techniques that you're supposed to be taught by a professor...for instance one day during a lesson in 7th grade my teacher stopped me and asked me if I knew I was double tounging and I said "I don't even know what that is"...I just do whatever feels natural when I play.

I really don't mean to sound boastful or like I'm bragging but: I've been told by Brian Bowman during a masterclass (as a college freshman) that I had virtuosic ability and I had a fantastic sound. Dr. Jefferey Jarvis was shocked that I didn't listen to tuba cd's b/c my tone was one of the best he's heard and all of my friends (including some professional level students) agree and say I have a fantastic tone and sound. I've been first chair in pretty much every ensemble I've been in since 9th grade.

Like a said before, I do think that buzzing CAN be a useful tool, I just feel that a lot of people place way too much emphasis on it. I know plenty of people that can do a fantastic free buzz but that can't play worth a crap. And then there are guys like me who do everything "wrong" but end up w/ good results...so to say that buzzing is the best thing you can do is ludicrous. Also, I met a professional tuba player (Hank Feldman) who couldn't do low register buzzing until AFTER he was a professional...

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:14 pm

Sounds like you need to take more and bigger auditions...

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:39 pm

A big difference between "free buzz" and "mouthpiece buzz".

And, a lot of difference between confidence and cockiness.

Arkietuba · Post by **Arkietuba** » Mon May 28, 2007 5:44 pm

When I said "free buzz" I meant on the mouthpiece...some people refer to it as that...

Okay, I suck at explaining things right off the bat...buzzing isn't something that concerns me (obviously). Every professor and professional muscian that I've studied w/ has eventually said that my buzzing and embouchure don't seem to detract from my playing so they stop trying to fix it. I don't have a "bad" embouchure, just not the kind that you're taught (I play how I "feel" is best). I do listen to my instructors and take to heart what they say, but they all say that this doesn't seem to hurt my playing therefor, I don't worry too much about buzzing. I did change my embouchure about 2 years ago but it's still a little off (mainly just the strength on the left side of it). You guys would have to see/hear me to really understand what I'm saying...

Oh, to the "cockiness" statement...
I said that I didn't mean to come off as cocky or boastful. I'm actually quite humble...I just used those examples to show that I have had pros tell me that it's not a problem...maybe I'm just a freak of nature on tuba and I can do things the "incorrect" way but still achieving success.

I really do hate having to make these statements, but it pisses me off when people who have nothing better to do than criticize others w/out truely understanding their situation...so of course I'm going to defend myself. I'm all most of the verge of just leaving this BBS due to the morons who do nothing except criticize others.

Drbuzzz · Post by **Drbuzzz** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:58 pm

I have problems buzzing certain notes as well. Iâ€™ve found that if I start in the middle register (bottom-space A) and work my way down (i.e. start where I have success and transfer it to the challenging areas) my life is less frustrating. I like to do â€œMary Had a Little Lambâ€

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:08 pm

Mouthpiece buzzing serves an important function if, for whatever reason, you can't have your tuba with you but you can have a mouthpiece. I have taken a plastic mouthpiece on TransPacific airflights with no problem. I would take it with me to the lavatory and "practice" there--I could hear the snickers outside the door.

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:55 am

[quote="Drbuzzz"]As for the way I understand â€œfree buzzing,â€

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:13 am

Arkietuba wrote: I really do hate having to make these statements, but it pisses me off when people who have nothing better to do than criticize others w/out truely understanding their situation...so of course I'm going to defend myself. I'm all most of the verge of just leaving this BBS due to the morons who do nothing except criticize others.

Arkie, I think you need to reread the posts on this topic. If you are going to get pissed off over this, maybe you need to leave "this BBS." You can leave wondering if anyone will miss your posts. \

TubeNet is not a place where one can say anything they want to say and expect it to be taken as fact. The truth is you will often need to defend yourself. People often use the phrase "people who have nothing better to do" on TubeNet. It is usually used to attack others, rather than to refute what has been said. If your skin is too thin, I suggest you find somewhere that accepts anything you say as "gospel." However, if you want to hear many different viewpoints, and want to have the opportunity to hear from many knowledgeable(and sometimes, not so knowledgeable) people, stick around for a while. I, for one, have learned a lot. I have also found friendship among those who supposedly "have nothing better to do."

Arkietuba · Post by **Arkietuba** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:27 am

Okay, so I guess I over reacted. It's just that usually whenever I post something, the same people tend to attack me for what I said. They even attack my musicianship which is definately not cool. Some even goes as far as to say that what some pros have told me is bs.

I never said that you shouldn't use buzzing as part of your practice routine and I never said that I didn't buzz. I buzz for a few minutes every practice session. But, from my own personal experience (and from what pros and proffesors I've studied w/ have told me) my buzzing is definately not holding me back and I shouldn't place too much emphasis on it. They mainly work on my embouchure since it's weak on one side. You guys would just have to listen to me play to really understand where I'm comming from. Basically what I was saying is that if you're already pretty far along in your musicianship I don't think you need to place THAT much emphasis on it. The original poster kinda seemed like he was really worried about it so I was just letting him know that some people tend to put too much emphasis on it and you don't have to.

I think I'm gonna stop defending my view points b/c it seems futile...like the time I had to defend my like of rap music. SOME (not that many, but a few) didn't seem to understand that I was talking about the minority of rap that's actually good like Youngblood Brass Band, Common, Kanye to name a few. They simply focused on the bad rap even though I CLEARLY stated that I was refering to the few rappers that are good. So with that, I'm gonna stop defending my point of view b/c it seems that the people that attack those views are set in their ways and don't want to listen to a different side...

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:44 am

That is some excellent advise from Mojo. Advise learned through lessons with many top players. Read it and understand. BTW, probably excellent advise from others, but I only follow Mojo's posts

.

Stefan

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:48 pm

Arkietuba wrote: I think I'm gonna stop defending my view points b/c it seems futile...like the time I had to defend my like of rap music. SOME (not that many, but a few) didn't seem to understand that I was talking about the minority of rap that's actually good like Youngblood Brass Band, Common, Kanye to name a few. They simply focused on the bad rap even though I CLEARLY stated that I was refering to the few rappers that are good. So with that, I'm gonna stop defending my point of view b/c it seems that the people that attack those views are set in their ways and don't want to listen to a different side...

In my opinion, there are times silence has the ability to articulate meaning more clearly and more powerfully. As for whose advice you should heed, always consider the source and what information the source has access to.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:27 pm

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:15 pm

Doc wrote:I wouldn't buzz excercises as a whole, unless you are double-checking a tough lick, but even then you should be singing it in your head. The body will unconsciously make the necessary corrections if you hear the pitch in your head.

I've used buzzing as a tool to get my face to play the right notes, especially in difficult passages.

My best story (I've posted it before, too) was when I was first presented with the march, Barnum & Bailey's Favorite, in college while I was on euph. I felt like I could be doing the fast licks (pretty much the whole thing) a little better and more consistently, so I decided to try working it up on the mouthpiece alone. After a few days, I could pretty much play every pitch on time and as a distinct pitch. Once I plugged back into the horn, it came out much, much better than before.

Apart from a face workout and a practice/warmup thing to do when I don't have the horn, I use buzzing specifically for one main thing, and that's pitch accuracy.

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