Helleberg 7B on a Miraphone 1291...could it affect tuning???

[DaTubaKid]

A mouthpiece can do lots of things to your intonation. Some mouthpieces work better with some horns than others. When I bought my 1291, I started using the Miraphone mouthpiece that came with it. Towards the end of my freshman year, i switched to a PT 50 which has worked great with the horn. My recommendation: try out as many mouthpieces as you can and put em in front of a tuner. Any mouthpieces other students or your professor would be willing to lend you for a week while you get used to it would work well.

Nonetheless, if you're able to get the 7B in tune on your 1291 and you get a good sound, by no means, stick with it. If the shoe fits, why change it?

[Dan Schultz]

.... i know the helleberg 7B is a smaller mouthpiece, more designed for an F tuba...

I don't know where THAT information came from!

[bttmbow]

Conn Helleberg ... American sahnk? Not Euro shank? Just a thought... SHarrrrppp? not just the rim, huh?

CJH

[MikeMason]

If you like the 7b,but think its small size is a problem,the logical piece to try is the regular conn helleberg or one of its many variants.I consider the 7b an f piece,but hey, whatever works for you,your horn,and your mouth...

[Biggs]

Assuming you are playing in an air-conditioned building (i.e. some type of college facility), I don't think the outdoor temperature would matter that much. If you are playing matinees on a gazebo, things would be different.

I agree with the advice about trying a regular Helleberg. Since the rims are the same, it is not unreasonable to switch back and forth if you wanted (I do just this, using the 7B for quintet and the regular for pretty much everything else).

Since the regular size is deeper, perhaps this would allow you to move the same volume of air at a slower speed, thereby creating less pressure that would cause you to blow sharp. Just a thought.

[WakinAZ]

I would consider a 7B to be too small for that tuba. Have you tried the mp that shipped with it? I'm thinking they ship it with a Miraphone 29 or so? Point is, if the 7B ain't cutting it, try something else. If other people are playing it in tune with a 7B (and I doubt that many have tried), they aren't you.

I have a regular silver Conn Helleberg in excellent condition that I will never play - can't get into that sharp rim. If interested, PM me.

Wasn't it Bill Bell who said the mp that comes with the horn is usually good enough?

Eric "who likes the Miraphone mouthpieces and Bill Bell quotes" L.

[Blake Dowling]

the pt-88 looks exactly like the pt-50, the only difference is the 88 has a more rounded rim, the rim on the 50 is much sharper. in fact i would compare the rim on my 50+ to be very close to a helleberg, just a lot bigger. and the 88 is huge.

[WakinAZ]

i have a helleberg regular that i think is defected, and my horn wasnt shipped with a mouthpiece, i ordered it from wwbw

If your mp defected, alert the authorities. You might PM Roger Lewis about your dilemma; he has a lot of experience and knowledge re: the Miraphone line of tubas.

Eric "I (capitalized) think you're fighting the wrong mp" L.

[Blake Dowling]

I used to use a bach. and kinda similar but much more open. and a rather large cup to. even on the regular size. the 88 is really only useful to some, it was designed as a special application mp for extreme low register playing. it does (in my opinion) produce a very warm dark german sound.

[Donn]

If you want to play basketball like Michael Jordan, you wear shoes in your size, not his size. Aren't tuba mouthpieces the same? I can see how someone who plays a larger mouthpiece on contrabass tuba, would see the 7B as a small one, but I wonder if that's different for each individual.

[Dan Schultz]

.... i know the helleberg 7B is a smaller mouthpiece, more designed for an F tuba...

I don't know where THAT information came from!

I read it on a previous thread about the PT50+

It's true that the 7B is a dab smaller than the original Helleberg.... but it's hardly what I would consider a small mouthpiece. I didn't mean to be argumentive.... I was just curious.

[Donn]

It's true that the 7B is a dab smaller than the original Helleberg....

Speaking of unchallenged assertions - the most detailed history of the Conn Hellebergs I have seen is of course here on Tubenet, The Conn Helleberg, in particular Haugan's post. He doesn't really contradict, because he doesn't discuss size of the original Helleberg relative to the popular Conn-Helleberg of the '30s, but does claim that the 7B is a copy of the latter.

[Quicksilvertuba]

...and my horn wasnt shipped with a mouthpiece, i ordered it from wwbw

Well, it should have come with a mouthpiece (TU31), mine did and I ordered it from the wwbw in oct. 05...you should look into that...

[Biggs]

With regards to the 7b argument as to whether it is a small mouthpiece, are we talking diameter or depth?

I don't use the 7b at all but I understand it to have significantly less depth than the standard Helleberg. In my opinion, the 7b then would seem brighter, more articulate(maybe), use less air, have less depth of sound, possibly push the pitch sharp, more edgy sounding, will probably get splattery for low loud passages.

In my view/opinion, if the above info is correct, the bads outweigh the goods. Sooo try the standard helleberg. Or even a Kellyberg. I think you will find you lose the soloistic character and can really feel some sound. But you may also find that your pitch drifts down and eventually reaches the point you want it to be.

Being a Helleberg devotee, I find your description of the 7B to be accurate (brighter, edgy, less low control, etc.) but I don't think the goods outweigh the bads if you're playing in certain arenas. For example, I use my 7B to play a CC tuba in brass quintet, which, to my young and relatively inexperienced ears, helps the overall blend of the group by
a.) preventing the sound from being tuba-heavy
and
b.) improving overall blend by making my sound closer to the brightness of the others (i.e. trumpets).

Even if these slight differences are negligible (or even non-existent at my level of playing), the shallower cup and marginally smaller rim help to stave off fatigue in the upper register, something that gets a lot of work in the quintet repertoire.

That being said, I wouldn't try to play a 7B in band. I did that for one concert and was fighting the lower register and a tinny (by comparison) sound the entire time.

[WakinAZ]

so...

After all of the b.s. in this thread, would a mm. difference in a mouthpiece make 1% of the difference in intonation as 30 min./day spent with this book?

Probably not, but the OP did ask about mouthpiece selection, and the consensus of the TNMJ (TubeNet Mouthpiece Jury) is that the mp he is using is probably not the best overall choice for reasons other than pitch.

Eric "who thinks people who ask questions on TubeNet usually get the advice they ask for, but not always the advice they need" L.

[sloan]

so...

After all of the b.s. in this thread, would a mm. difference in a mouthpiece make 1% of the difference in intonation as 30 min./day spent with this book?

Probably not, but the OP did ask about mouthpiece selection, and the consensus of the TNMJ (TubeNet Mouthpiece Jury) is that the mp he is using is probably not the best overall choice for reasons other than pitch.

Eric "who thinks people who ask questions on TubeNet usually get the advice they ask for, but not always the advice they need" L.

"You can't always get what you waaaant..."

[Steve Inman]

Disclaimer: few objective facts here -- merely my observations -- ymmv.

Bach 7 mpc measures just a smidge over 33mm inside cup diameter. So the biggest Bach mpc is 1/2mm smaller than the PT88. Also, I think the Bach mpcs aren't quite as deep as the monster PT mpcs.

I use a Bach 7 Megatone (for bigger throat, not heavy walls) for larger groups. It sounds a bit more edgier than my standard Helleberg that I usually use for quintet playing. But my Conn 56J has a bit broader sound and I think the Bach helps counter that a wee bit.

When playing my Yamaha Eb with quintet, I (believe) I'm getting a bigger sound with the standard Helleberg than with my 7B (my ears). Although the standard Helleberg seems a bit too large for the horn, based on "conventional wisdom" (?), the results seem fine, so I use it.

Steve's random conclusions: The standard Helleberg has worked well for me with a number of tubas I've owned -- a good "general purpose" mpc, imo. I did not like the C4-ish mpc I tried (Schilke 69C4) with my Conn 56J. I do like the Bach 7 -- about the same rim as the C4, but deeper cup. Unless you have exceptionally large lips, I'd pick something at about 33mm maximum for your next mpc. Bach 12, Bach 7, PT-4x to PT-50 (maybe), standard Helleberg, Wick 1L (1XL) (interesting mpc -- 32.5mm, deep, big throat), Loud something, etc.

Disclaimer mode = off.

[cjk]

I play on a miraphone 1291CC, yet I use a gold Helleberg 7B mouthpiece, i know the helleberg 7B is a smaller mouthpiece, more designed for an F tuba, but I was wondering if this could be making me go sharp throughout. I tried my silver regular helleberg and it wasnt much lower, maybe a cent because it was cold

On my big CC, should i continue using a Helleberg 7B or would it end up hurting my intonation....i normally have to pull an inch and a half out on it...but i am in Texas, and it is always HOT here...so idk

Thanks for any help

I think most folks (except for Chris Hall ) are over analyzing the question. A 1291CC has a large mouthpiece receiver. It swallows the shank of both of your Conn Hellebergs. A Euro shank mouthpiece will fit more appropriately and play flatter. I bet your tuning slide will be in around an inch further.

What note do you tune to out of curiosity? If you're tuning to any open G or E on that tuba, that's a mistake, all your Cs will be sharp (at least on all of those that I've played).

If you don't have a problem with your tuning slide being pulled out so far, I wouldn't change. It's what comes out of the bell that's actually important.