Would Arnold Jacobs be the best today? Take 2

[Steve Oberheu]

Apply this question to other areas and see what kind of answer you get.....

Would Abraham Lincoln (or any other famous president) be as prominent a politician/president if he were around today? Would he even make it to president? By all accounts, he was not an attractive man and would not look like presidential material for the cameras. Fact was, he was the right leader at the right time.

Would Fran Tarkenton, Bart Starr or Joe Namath even be competitive in the modern NFL? They may be too slow, not big enough, not strong enough an arm. But, the game never would have evolved like it did without these figures.

Would Eddie Van Halen be considered a phenom in today's world, or would he be another run-of-the-mill guitarist? It's easy to say that he would be in the middle of the pack as far as technique goes. But....in 1975, no one had EVER heard a guitarist like that. He had an extraordinary feel for the music he played and, like the aforementioned football players, rock n' roll would not have evolved into what it was were it not for Eddie breaking new ground.

So what's my answer? Well....that discussing whether or not someone like Mr. Jacobs would win in today's music world is kind of irrelevant. Because, he was the right man in his time and he changed the face of the game, not only with his playing but with his teaching.

In the words of some football player whose identity I can't remember...."players today are bigger, stronger, faster. But we played the game."

[ZNC Dandy]

At that level in a orchestral audition, anybody can beat anybody on any given day. Who ever produces the sound that committee wants to hear at that particular audition is who is going to win. If they don't hear what they like, they won't pick anyone.

[brianf]

Let's reverse this - Would Peratoni, Kaenzig, Jantscth and the rest of us be as good today if it were not for Jacobs? He raised the level of playing and also changed the pedagogy through his teachings. Times change, a 15 year old playing on an E flat with the 4th valved taped down will not get into Curtis these days. Each generation takes what it learns from the prior generation, improves upon it and passes it to the next generation. Would today's generation be as good if it were not for Jacobs?

[bilmac]

Whose better---Ben Hogan or Tiger. We'll never know. Hogan said all you can do is beat the players round you at the time.Thats what he did.Its also what Jacobs did . Its all anybody can do . The rest is so conjectural as not to be worth wondering about, there's better things to do with your time.
Rick's got it right and hit the right word for it as well.

Brass buzzers for Tuba? Discuss, write on one side of the paper only.


Bilmac

[Alex C]

Mr. Jacobs once told me in a lesson that he didn't think he would win an audition for a major symphony position at that time (1970's).

He said that conductors invariably love the way he sounds in the orchestra and ask him to recommend students who sound like him but the audition process would eventually exclude him. My interpetation is that he felt committees, made up of string, woodwind, percussion and brass players, were likely to compromise.

Remember, there were few auditions in his days of job searching. The conductor usually just hired someone that was recommended or that he'd heard. There was often a short trial period. In at least one major orchestra, when the bass trombonist started faltering, he was moved to the tuba chair.

When he was working in Philadelphia, he got a call from Koussevitzky asking him to join the Boston Symphony Orchestra for $90 a week. He figured up what he was making from the work he was doing in Philly on tuba gigs, bass gigs, singing, and radio announcing, and told Serge that he was making $95 a week in Philly. Koussevitzky said he couldn't go that high.

[quinterbourne]

I think great players have the ability to adapt to a variety of different settings. AJ was a great player and I believe he would be able to adapt to current trends.

[windshieldbug]

Would today's generation be as good if it were not for Jacobs?

I think this is exactly the point. And rather than speculate, let's just pay hommage to a great musician and teacher, who happened to play tuba.

[Alex C]

Sometimes I wonder if it was AJ who planted the seed for bigger tubas, bigger sound, bigger volume, bigger bigger bigger...

Again, not in my opinion. I think today's orchestral brass sound is more influenced by Bill Bell and the West Coast players . The sound of most of today's tubists (with exceptions) is more Bill Bell/West Coast, lots of fundamental with solid mid-range overtones but not many highs.

Ron Bishop, Joe Novotny, Chester Schmidt and others fall in to that same general category, all great players in their own right. Comparing their sound to Jacobs' sound is like comparing daylight to night. Again, all great players.

There were plenty of 6/4 tubas floating around before Jacobs too; Kaiser tubas in Europe and the large Conns are some examples. Players today use 6/4 tubas because they have to play loud to keep up with the rest of the brass. For the most part, they do not attempt to play with Jacobs' color.

Jacobs produced a sound with lots of fundamental and overtones more-or-less equal from mid to high. He did this so that he wouldn't have to play loud all of the time.

Jacobs, and the entire CSO brass, weren't as loud as some of the orchestras are today. The trend has been toward louder, louder. The CSO brass were loud when asked (or allowed by the conductor - no pun) but it was color that set them apart.

[Ivan Giddings]

He donate his life to Music, and the development of brass playing specifically, tuba playing! He was unique for his era, and he is still alive in many of his students. He has done more for brass playing, specifically low brass playing than most individuals

I appreciate his contribution

Ivan Giddings

[tubajoe]

We get too involved in semantics, in logistics, in micromanagement ...
(ie higher, faster, louder, famouser, richer...)

For me, it was his musical opinion. The thing about him is that regardless of anything, there is NO question of what his musical opinion was. NO prisoners, no question. He put it out there, love it or not.

It went waaaay beyond the tuba, waaaay beyond the pedagogy, waaaay beyond dynamics....

It was his ability to wage sheer opinion. Sheer emotional communication at the highest level.

At the heart of it all, what else is there?


(I talk about this in my blog... brassclass.blogspot.com)

[bill]

Again, not in my opinion. I think today's orchestral brass sound is more influenced by Bill Bell and the West Coast players . The sound of most of today's tubists (with exceptions) is more Bill Bell/West Coast, lots of fundamental with solid mid-range overtones but not many highs.

I have been fortunate, in my tuba playing life (now, 59 years) to have known 3 people who also new Bill Bell. All three of them told me the same thing about Bell. "No matter how great a tuba player he was, he was an even better musician." One of these people was my father and the other two were very well respected New York professionals who were tutored and brought along by Bell. Every Bell student I have ever heard had a tone that identified his teacher as Bell. None of the younger guys now playing have that sort of tone, yet all I have heard are very good, very musical and wonderful to listen to.

Arnold Jacobs also added so much, in his teaching and playing, to our world I feel his contributions should be above any comparative discussion. We should just be glad we have had these two men (and all the others) precede us to allow us to be where we are, now.