TSA - another flying topic

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tubajoe
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TSA - another flying topic

Post by tubajoe »

As I am sitting here working out some logistics for several trips this summer, I am reminded of an interesting thing I learned from a TSA employee. (I am saying this knowing some of the TSA nightmares many of us have dealt with)

Once in Green Bay (a tiny airport) a friendly midwestern TSA employee gave me a great tidbit about dealing with the TSA. He told me that YOU have the LEGAL RIGHT to personally be present during the TSA inspection. They dont tell you this because they dont want the hassle.

Since then, every time (about 3 or 4 times) I have accompanied the inspection (even here in NYC) and it has worked every time. I am present and when they open the horn case and they ask me (but dont let me touch) how to deal with the horn, or they simply dont open it at all.

The TSA supposedly opens your case ONCE. After they inspect it, they wipe down the latches with a special substance, so it can be tracked / fingerprinted if the case is opened again after inspection. It is not supposed to be opened again until you open it yourself after you claim it at the destination.


Again, this is ONLY based on word of mouth advice from one kind TSA worker and some limited personal experience. Your experience may differ :)



Anyone else care to comment? (please do... this is a crucial topic that applies to anyone that flies with their axe!)
Last edited by tubajoe on Wed May 23, 2007 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rascaljim
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Post by rascaljim »

That's correct. Actually, most of the time they've done the inspection right in front of me at the large airports.
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Post by Nachdiddlyacho »

This is 100% true. They are also required to lock the case after the inspection if you so request.
Just a side note, if you missed the latest IM, the AFM has finally lifted it's ban on flying Delta.
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Post by Alex C »

After just having something stolen from my checked suitcase, I am more wary than ever about flying with my tuba. Remember, Harvey Phillips' tuba was destroyed by an airline (not the only tuba they've ruined, just the most famous). Insurance from the airlines is nearly non-existant, they won't replace your damaged tuba... or even fix it.

There was the article in the IM about a violist, the airline would not let him carry the instrument in the passenger compartment, they made him check it. When they handed it back to him it was in 14 pieces. They offered him something under $1,000.00 if I remember correctly.

If you feel your instrument in irreplaceable, don't fly with it. Period.
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Tom Holtz
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Post by Tom Holtz »

The TSA has never been a problem for me. I've watched the inspections, they have always been careful. It's what happens after the TSA inspection that has been hazardous to the tuba's health.

I believe all three tubas that went to Sacramento this weekend from BWI made the trip without damage. Mine came through fine, knock on wood.
      
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Post by MileMarkerZero »

From the TSA web site:
Instruments as Checked Baggage

You may bring musical instruments as checked baggage as long as they fit within the size and weight limitations of the airline you are taking.

We encourage you to stay with your instrument while security officers screen it to make sure it is repacked properly.

Owners should be present when an instrument is removed from its case for screening. For this reason, musicians are advised to add at least 30 minutes to the airline's recommended arrival window when checking their instrument.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1235.shtm
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Tom Holtz
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Post by Tom Holtz »

Thank you for the link. I was searching the TSA site for this last night, and couldn't come up with it. This should be required reading for anyone flying with a horn. Note that there is no reference to any "legal right" to be present during an inspection, but the tone of the document suggests that they expect you to be present.

Also, be aware that the TSA officers at any airport have to adapt their inspection routines to the constraints of the facilities in which they work. One of the regulars at my bar gig in Baltimore is a TSA section leader in the Southwest Airlines concourse of BWI airport. In an e-mail, I asked him whether or not someone could be with their tuba at an inspection. His reply...
my buddy in the TSA wrote:The answer is: It depends.

At some airports checked baggage is screened at the ticket counter, in full view, as soon as you check it in. (If memory serves me, Orlando is set up like that.) At other airports like BWI, checked baggage is screened downstairs, where it is sent after you check it in. In the former scenario, you would be there when it is screened, in the latter scenario you would not be there. In some special situations, our checked baggage people might need a passenger to be present when his/her bag is inspected in checked baggage, but that is very rare.

A tuba, however, should not have to be "inspected" in the sense that someone would want to open the case and handle it. All checked baggage is x-rayed by very sophisticated machines, and much of the process is automated. Musical instruments are surprisingly common, and there would be no need to open and inspect a tuba, or other similar instrument, unless something else was in the case that caught the x-ray operator's attention and required inspection.

Regarding the handling of peoples' property: We do that all day long, and are very careful for the most part. Now, I will not defend the airline baggage handlers, who do indeed toss luggage onto the belts with no regard for how it lands. But TSA personnel handle passengers' property very carefully.
Obviously, if you ask for a TSA inspection at the check-in counter, where there is no x-ray equipment, a visual inspection is the only alternative, and the horn will get handled by TSA at that point. I have not asked to be present at the TSA inspection at BWI. If I did, I'm certain the TSA officer would have to come up from the inspection area to the counter, as passengers are not allowed into the baggage loading area. If this is your situation, be prepared to wait. I've not flown through Orlando with a tuba, but I have flown through San Francisco a bunch, and the terminal at SFO I usually get has a separate inspection point for oversize checked baggage. There is no x-ray at that station at SFO, inspections are visual only.

The last time I went through the SFO inspection point, the guy handled my horn very carefully, and this dude was NFL-sized and lifted my hard case over three dog kennels like it was a shoebox. With those three angry mutts waiting for his attention, he was happy to look at a harmless instrument. The time before that, the TSA officer knew it was a tuba on first sight without looking or asking. Turns out he had a nephew who was a percussion major at Julliard. In both instances, the case was opened, the mouthpiece box was searched, but the horn was not removed from it's place.

Since my horn/case combination comes awfully close to the 50 lb. limit enforced by most airlines, I don't put extra stuff in the case as many of us would wish to do. That probably spares my horn from being opened for visual inspections at BWI. I often get the TSA inspection notices in my suitcase, which routinely carries my folding music stand. Let's face it, a folded stand can't look too promising on an x-ray readout. I usually pack that right on top, in front, for easy access.

I'll ask my buddy more about this when we play up in Baltimore next week. Much of his actual procedural routine applies only to his station at BWI, but he knows the regs inside and out.
      
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Post by Geotuba »

Toronto Terminal 1 (OK - I know it's not TSA since it's not in the USA) has an x-ray inspection station for oversize baggage in the passenger accessible area where you can, indeed are expected to be, present when the inspection is done. In the past I have sent a folding bike, and a tuba through here with no problems.
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Post by Tubainsauga »

Toronto Terminal 1 is actually really good to fly out of. My very large (and very blue) walt johnson case fits through the x-ray fine and Air Canada is generally very good about instruments. Tubas go along with dog kennels, sports equipment, etc. and they seem to be very gentle with then (I've been able to watch them load it occasionally while sitting at the gate.) Also, they very rarely charge me the overweight fee (which is only around $30). Unfortunately, my CC is too heavy to go as luggage now, though I did get it through once because it couldn't fit on the scale properly and appeared to weigh a lot less then it actually did so I had no problem there (and that flight was on a regional jet).
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Post by sloan »

Nachdiddlyacho wrote:This is 100% true. They are also required to lock the case after the inspection if you so request.
Just a side note, if you missed the latest IM, the AFM has finally lifted it's ban on flying Delta.
In fact, the EASIEST way to deal with all of this is to tell the TSA that you want to lock the case after inspection. They will immediately inspect the case (with you there) and then allow you to lock it (or lock it for you).

My son flies his euph like this all the time. Not a single hassle.
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Post by Tom Holtz »

snufflelufigus wrote:I get some dents in the bell about 10%-15% of the time...
Jam a basketball in your bell, or a volleyball or whatever the biggest ball is that you can have in your bell and still squeeze it into the case. You'll add less than a pound to the total weight of your axe, and the ball will take most of the beating instead of the bell of your horn.
      
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Post by MaryAnn »

snufflelufigus wrote:To be honest I am so happy to get rid of the damn thing so I can get to the bar and start pounding beers... I get some dents in the bell about 10%-15% of the time... I get a drum stick and roll them out myself rather then arguing with the airlines...
You reminded me of a true story that happened to a beer-loving friend of mine. His flight was delayed and he spent the couple hours pounding beers in the bar. Then he boarded what turned out to be a puddle-jumper with no head. He ended up giving the barf bag a new and unusual use, after (hee hee) consulting with the flight attendant.

MA
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Post by tubajoe »

snufflelufigus wrote:To be honest I am so happy to get rid of the damn thing so I can get to the bar and start pounding beers... I get some dents in the bell about 10%-15% of the time... I get a drum stick and roll them out myself rather then arguing with the airlines...



:mrgreen:
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Post by tubajoe »

snufflelufigus wrote:
Tom Holtz wrote:
snufflelufigus wrote:I get some dents in the bell about 10%-15% of the time...
Jam a basketball in your bell, or a volleyball or whatever the biggest ball is that you can have in your bell and still squeeze it into the case. You'll add less than a pound to the total weight of your axe, and the ball will take most of the beating instead of the bell of your horn.
I kind of like the battle scars... as long as they don't mangle the valves I'm pretty cool about dents in the bell...
...and that's all not to mention other hazards to our axes:

-Subway turnstyles
-Rogue guitar players
-Narrow stairwells
-Icy sidewalks
-Low ceilings
-Meathead bouncers
-Panicky drivers with yellow licence plates
-Stoned soundmen
-Complacent deliverymen
-Global warming
-Student loan officers
-Reedists wielding sharp tools
-Lead trumpet players close to spontaneous combustion
-Groupies
-Snarky Hipsters
-Resentful section string players who wished they had a solo career
-Zealous drunken dancing patrons
-Stage diving / other antics

...and the TSA.


Playing the tuba can be a dangerous business.
"When you control sound, you control meat." -Arnold Jacobs
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Post by Rick Denney »

MaryAnn wrote:You reminded me of a true story that happened to a beer-loving friend of mine. His flight was delayed and he spent the couple hours pounding beers in the bar. Then he boarded what turned out to be a puddle-jumper with no head. He ended up giving the barf bag a new and unusual use, after (hee hee) consulting with the flight attendant.
Been there, and almost done that.

I flew once from Denver to Bismark, and the flight was on a Beech that had no head. The flight was well over two hours, and I didn't know it didn't have a head until boarding the plane. That brings new meaning to pain and suffering.

And to top it off, they didn't load our baggage (we had presentations to give the next morning, and our suits were in our bags), because some freight was running heavy and our bags got bumped. We had to buy suits at JC Penney's that evening. Few people in Bismark wear suits, and now I know why.

Rick "who hates having so many airline horror stories" Denney
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Post by tubajoe »

Rick Denney wrote:
I flew once from Denver to Bismark, and the flight was on a Beech that had no head. The flight was well over two hours, and I didn't know it didn't have a head until boarding the plane. That brings new meaning to pain and suffering.

Something I learned on the road: Never underestimate the versatility of a Gatorade bottle.
"When you control sound, you control meat." -Arnold Jacobs
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