Purchasing My First Tuba!

[BriceT]

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to purchase a new CC tuba in about a year, but I need to start looking now so that my parents and I can have a number to shoot for. Obviously I will not make my choice without going to test out some tubas, but it sure doesn't hurt to look!

Anyways, I am looking for a 4/4 CC tuba to use for every type of playing situation during college. I also heavily prefer piston valves over rotary, and I want a tuba with 4 pistons and 1 rotor.

My price range is about $6,500 to $9,000.

This will probably be my only tuba. I'm planning to major in tuba performance, but also in Pre-Med(cause i'm going to be a doctor). So, I'm not going to be a professional tuba player, but I'm planning to stay really serious with music during college.

This is a mental list I have struck up from searching online and talking to other musicians.

-Meinl Weston 2145, "Thor" (who knows maybe I can strike it rich)
-Miraphone 1292 "New Yorker"
-Conn 5xJ (Satin Silver vs. Silver Plate)
-B&S 6p, 606p, 20(but i heard that they were quite expensive)
-any others?

This is just a rough list. Please express your wisdom on the tubas listed above, how I should go about my choice, any tubas you really like, a way to come up with some money, etc. Any help is greatly needed, and will be appreciated! Thanks!

[Blake Dowling]

from what I hear the 2145 is a really good horn. the pt's are really expensive but they hold their value well (from what I've seen) you could definately afford a used pt-6p. though that is far from a 4/4. it is a 5/4 that can hold its own against some 6/4's. the miraphone is a very nice horn. and if you can actually pull off the 9000 maybe you could save a little more and give Greg a bid on his Hirsbrunner HB-21. they are absoultely outstanding horns. (Can't speek for Greg's personally cause I haven't played it.) In the very least you should play one. Well good luck and check with any local pro's you can, especially with your future tuba professor.

[goldtuba]

maybe if you can find a nice used Wilson 3050. I only had the chance to play one, but I didn't have the finances to buy it. It was one of the best horns that I ever played on.

[jonesbrass]

The PT-6P is a hot horn right now, but I wouldn't call it a 4/4. it's more of a large 5/4 or 6/4. Playing one felt like wrestling a bear to me. Too big for most uses, IMO. If you're considering the Perantucci line, the PT-3P is a really fantastic horn. Perfect all-around horn. Even though the bell is a little small, they play great and sound like a decent 4/4. Don't let the bell size fool you.

[iiipopes]

You left out the Miraphones: 186 & 188 5 valves. True 4/4 instruments.

A Rudy 4345 is a favorite of some. It has the slightly smaller valve block of the 43 but the larger bell of the 45. Rudy's tend to run a little larger for their size.

Older PT4's are good, even though the model was "replaced" by the PT20.

The Conn is not the bargain it used to be. But if you play it and it talks back to you, then you might be able to find one used.

If you're going to spend the upper end of your range, you're getting close to Alexander, Gronitz and even a used HB.

But if you're not going to seek professional employment as a tuba player, think about getting a used tuba instead of a new one so you have that much more cash for med school. Having been to grad school myself, you'll need it.

[hurricane_harry]

go with the new yorker, i got the prototype, it is an amazing horn. pm me if you want any specifics

[Lee Stofer]

Are you playing CC tuba now, or did someone tell you that you "Have To" play CC tuba if you're going to be a serious musician? If you are comfortable playing a CC tuba already, great, but if you do not plan to play professionally, you should be under no pressure to necessarily play a CC. I played a CC professionally last night, becuase that is what I had at the time. I think that performance would have been easier on a BBb tuba, and I am preparing a King BBb for that very purpose.

In my opinion, if you do not already play CC tuba, you would be better-off to buy a very good BBb. You can get a new King 2341 BBb at the lower end of your price range, which is a flexible, easy-to-play piston-valve instrument that is popular-enough to retain its value. The King could be used in an ensemble of any size or style. I would doubt that you would ever regret buying that instrument, and I'd suggest a lacquer finish to keep maintenance low. Use the rest of your available funding for college and getting started in life!

If you are a CC player, there are a host of good instruments available in the used market. The Meinl-Weston 2145 has been a popular choice since its inception in the mid' 1990's, a horn that is a comfortable choice for a variety of situations. I would caution against buying a moose of a tuba as your first and only instrument, whether billed as 5/4 or 6/4, as they are more difficult to transport, more susceptible to damage, and may or may not work out well in certain playing situations. Also, if you categorically reject all rotor instruments, you are ruling out a variety of potentially wonderful instruments out there. In either BBb or CC, there is very little on earth musically that a Mirafone 186 cannot accomplish, and the Meinl-Weston 25 is an affordable workhorse of a tuba, too. There are others, but you need to do the research and find out what makes you a better player, just by playing it.

[tubaguy9]

You can get a new King 2341 BBb at the lower end of your price range, which is a flexible, easy-to-play piston-valve instrument that is popular-enough to retain its value. The King could be used in an ensemble of any size or style. I would doubt that you would ever regret buying that instrument, and I'd suggest a lacquer finish to keep maintenance low. Use the rest of your available funding for college and getting started in life!

And with that, I agree that the King 2341's are amazing instruments for their price. If you absolutely have to have a CC, concider one of Gnagey's York-o-Kings. Somewhat of a Frankentuba, but it plays well...

[iiipopes]

And now that BBb has been mentioned, the solid, standard 4/4 BBb that will last you the rest of your playing life is the Miraphone 186.

[Steve Inman]

You can get a new King 2341 BBb at the lower end of your price range, which is a flexible, easy-to-play piston-valve instrument that is popular-enough to retain its value. The King could be used in an ensemble of any size or style. I would doubt that you would ever regret buying that instrument, and I'd suggest a lacquer finish to keep maintenance low. Use the rest of your available funding for college and getting started in life!

And with that, I agree that the King 2341's are amazing instruments for their price. If you absolutely have to have a CC, concider one of Gnagey's York-o-Kings. Somewhat of a Frankentuba, but it plays well...

Additional info in case you are not aware, Sam Gnagey is the tubist with the Ft. Wayne Symphony in Indiana, and also makes a very nice 4/4 CC piston valved tuba by re-working older King 4V BBb horns and replacing their original 2-piece bell with that from an older Eb tuba. The result is similar to a Conn 5xJ, with 18, 19 or 20" bell choices available -- and with a nicer slide layout for the valves. They play well and are priced very reasonably. If you get one in satin silver plate, it will probably look about the same as any other "almost new" instrument. The lacquered horns tend not to look as new, because they aren't -- but they will look fine and sound fine to your audience. Well worth considering.

To your list:

-Meinl Weston 2145, "Thor" (who knows maybe I can strike it rich)
-Miraphone 1292 "New Yorker"
-Conn 5xJ (Satin Silver vs. Silver Plate)
-B&S 6p, 606p, 20(but i heard that they were quite expensive)
-any others?

2145 -- is at the smaller end of the 4/4 spectrum, has "big valves" which are common to many MW piston horns and may challenge some players with smaller hands

Thor -- very weighty sound, especially in the low register. Roger Lewis' description of this horn at www.tubadome.com is 100% accurate, based on my experience with it.

Miraphone 1292 -- my personal favorite right now -- the one I tried at Woodwind & Brasswind a while back had more core to the sound than my 56JCC, played easily throughout the range -- a very nice all-around CC.

Conn 5xJ -- I currently play a 56J and it works well for everything from quintet to church orchestra. Easy to play and easy on the air requirements due to the smaller bore. The sound is a bit more plain than some instruments, but not bad. My ear seems to prefer the 1292.

PT horns -- I have no exerience with them.

Others? Miraphone 186-5UCC or 188-5UCC would both be good choices. In BBb, there is a Miraphone 187 in very good condition in the FS section of this board right now that would be a very nice choice for BBb. Rudy Meinl horns are nice -- especially the 4345 CC or the 45 CC (a "typical" 4/4 with slightly smaller bore and a "bigger" 4/4, respectively).

HTH,

[jeopardymaster]

I highly recommend you consult with Sam Gnagey. A number of other folks who post here should agree that his custom horns are world-class instruments - and can be had for a reasonable price, in many cases.

Open your line of communication now, and by the time you need one he may have one available. You might even choose to place an order.

If you PM me with your email address I'll happily send you pictures of mine. The bell and some bows are from an old York, the 4 piston valves are from an old King, and the rotary valve is from something else, maybe a Meinl Weston(?). The finish is a little splotchy, but the horn has great "bone structure" - ergonomic and sturdy - and it plays better than most other tubas I've tried, even those priced well into 5 figures.

[cjk]

The Conn 52J sounds perfect for the situation you describe. I really like the Thor, but it's a fairly big horn. The PT6P is an even larger horn.

I personally would not want to own any of the other horns on your list.

When you go tuba shopping, take an electronic tuner and use it.

[Steve Inman]

When you go tuba shopping, take an electronic tuner and use it.

This cannot be over-emphasized. Although I liked the responsiveness of the 1292 I tried over the Thor, I did not have a tuner to check either, as I wasn't immediately in the market -- just taking a few "test drives" to survey the new horns. You can play almost any tuba in tune by moving enough slides -- but you want to play a tuba, not the trombone!

(BTW, the 52J is one horn recommended in a somewhat recent thread asking about the "best" tuba to buy if you could only own one. A good all-around instrument. I have actually pondered selling my 56J in order to switch to a 52J. I haven't, because the AUDIENCE typcially can't tell the difference, and I happen to think I have a fairly good sample of a 56J -- hand selected out of a large batch by the first owner, who knew what he was doing.)

Cheers,

[iiipopes]

Go play some horns. One will pick you. Don't be in a hurry. Don't rule anything out along the way.

In the end, even though I was really looking at something else, budget, logistics and circumstances did that for me, and everyone who hears it is pleased.

[iiipopes]

And the 54J, with its 19 inch bell, seems to be the one that is made the least!

[BriceT]

thanks everyone for all the advice!

[Steve Inman]

Doc, do you know if there is a 1292 Bb?

Not yet. Shoot a note to Roger Lewis to see if he has heard anything.

Cheers,

[BriceT]

I posted this a long time ago and I actually got a Miraphone 1291 in October. It is an amazing horn and I still can't believe the clarity of the low range, and quick-response!

[David]

Check your pm.

Gnagey makes a very good tuba

[BriceT]

I posted this a long time ago and I actually got a Miraphone 1291 in October. It is an amazing horn and I still can't believe the clarity of the low range, and quick-response!

Thats cool man these two tubas have an amazing sound for the price that they run for. how do u like the baer MMVI mouthpiece? I'm considering buyiong one soon.

I really love mine. It works great for almost anything and really brings out the low register. The stainless steel is also a good benefit, and I also like the "color" that my sound gets when I use it. For me its all about finding which mouthpiece/tuba creates the sound that you have in your head and the Baer makes that reality.