Carefully Comparing Cerveny's

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Having recently purchased a Cerveny F, and having also owned an "older" Cerveny BBb, I have to say that the Cerveny quality has improved in the last few years. True, there were some truly great older Cerveny instruments, but the level of quality in my new Cerveny CFB-653-IX is at least on par with some of the better German makers. (the miniball linkages are sure a step above anything I used to see in the old days).
The one at Yankel's looks good, but if you really want an F to play, you should get the fifth valve, IMO. Try the 653. Dillon's might even have some in stock right now. ABSOLUTELY worth a look.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:45 am

Bob1062 wrote: Thanks.
I have no idea how the model numbers match up. Every one looks different and at the same time similar (to me)!
Does your's have the same paddles as the yankel one?
Do those paddles automatically mean older horn?

No, mine has more of the "Miraphone" or "Meinl-Weston" - type paddles. I don't think those short paddles automatically mean an older horn, as they are still using that type on their adjustable clockwork valves. The engraving on the bell, however, is an older design, probably before 1990.

Bob1062 wrote: 4 valves doesn't really scare me; I've been playing on 3 for over a decade! 4 valves would be awesome (no more big pulls for 13 and 123)!

You're right, Bob. The fourth valve really adds a lot. If you got the five valve version, I don't think you'd be disappointed, either. I find that the lower range (two-ledger line low C and below) REALLY plays well on my horn, and the Fifth valve helps the intonation, plus I can easily hit the low Gb in the Vaughan-Williams and other works that call for it.

Bob1062 wrote: I live in the city and don't have a car, so it'd be nice to have a tiny horn I can easily haul around for quintets and annoying old people.
And I bet it'd be fun with a really shallow mouthpiece!

Dillon's used to have the 5 valve F for about 3100. However, their prices on the C piggy really went up. I just checked their F prices and they still seem to be good, but noticeably above this one.-
http://tinyurl.com/222qc6

I think the Yankel one comes with a bag too. I would only go for it if I can haggle him down somewhat. I should be getting enough money soon for this (but not enough for a nice contrabass or a nice big Eb).

The one you're looking at from Yankel's and the CFB-653 that Dillon offers are probably exactly what you're looking for size-wise and for playing quintet stuff. The 653 is a real beauty, and is a great bargain. Why not save up and get a new five-valver? You wouldn't be disappointed.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:17 am

Bob, I've never actually measured the slides, but the first slide has a good 3", the second valve about 2 1/2", the third has about 2 1/2", and the fourth is about 2 1/2". My fifth is about 5". The main tuning slide is LONG. I don't have any of the valve slides out much more than an inch, but the main tuning slide I have pulled about 4 1/2 inches, maybe a little more. I'm pretty sure this horn was designed to cover both the european and US markets because when the tuning slide is all the way in, I'm at least 50 cents sharp. Some of the eurpean bands I used to gig with tuned up well above A=440, so this tuba would work there. The main tuning slide is at least 7" long, so it easily pulls out enough to play at A=440, or maybe a little lower.
YMMV, however, because how sharp or flat a horn plays also has something to do with the size of your oral cavity, the mouthpiece you use, etc. I'm using a Doug Elliott TU-2N-132 rim with a "N" cup and an "N3"(?) shank. Basically 33.5mm diameter narrow flat rim, a medium-shallow bowl shaped cup and appropriate backbore.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:21 am

No, I don't generally need any false tones on any horn I use. They're probably there, but I don't use them.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:51 am

I know you've been on the hunt for a while, Bob. Just make sure you buy all the quality you can afford and buy the horn that speaks to you. The Cerveny Fs are nice horns, to be sure.

ArnoldGottlieb · Post by **ArnoldGottlieb** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:00 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Thanks for the measurements. This is what the guy replied to me (along with a bunch of pictures, but nothing odd there)-

Bob,

Here are a bunch of pics I took a few months ago. My dad represented (Ideal Music) all the Czech musical instruments ie Amati, Cerveny etc for more then 25 years in the US. When I began to help my mom (see pic) sell off this very large 50 plus year business, I had to get accustomed to finding large quantities of instruments. My dad sold to large institutions, schools, military etc. and so it wasn't unusual to have "a lot" of something. I still have a few hundred double basses and this is already 5 years into the liquidation. So although it might sound strange, horns like this tuba could be put away and basically disappear in a sea of other crates and cartons that arrived before and after from workshops and factories throughout Europe. I remember hearing at some point that my dad had " lost" 50 tubas in his warehouse and then about ten years later he "redicovered" them. This horn might be one of that batch, who knows. I think you get the idea . . .

Everything on the horn works perfectly. Slides, valves are all pristine
No case or bag ...

You'll see from the pics the condition I first saw it in. It had come out of its crate which is not shown.

Just my 2 cents.....
This guy is totally straight up. Great to deal with, and a well know wholesale/retail outlet here in the big city for a long time.

Don't know anything about this horn though......

Peace.
ASG

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:40 pm

Bob, you should check out Marty's horn over in the "for sale" section. Terrific price, GREAT horn, I'm sure.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:55 am

How does my current Cerveny F compare to my old Musica? Construction wise, the Musica F was clearly a Cerveny stencil. It was the same as a CFB-641. It was a solidly constructed horn with the long bell. The CFB-653 is a compact "open wrap" horn. Playing-wise, the CFB-653 is so much better I can't even begin to describe it. The Musica was nice, good tone, well built. The CFB-653 is in a whole different league: response, tone and inspiration. I was just working on Bach 'Cello Suite #3 last night, and it practically plays itself, very smooth jumps from low notes to high and vice versa, low range is solid and clear, in some ways even better than my 188, but much more lyrical, clear, and with quicker response.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:25 pm

Bob, I'm pretty sure that the 621 bag would work just fine. I was looking at them myself. Gard (I think?) makes one that says it fits both the CFB-643 and the Yamaha 621F.