New commercial

[pierso20]

Nearly EVERYONE has heard fine orchestral music within the last year. That ridiculous assertion is based on what I have heard in the movie theater. That's where our most talented composers (successfully) ply their trade, and where some of our most successful working musicians perform. Why aren't we commissioning works from these composers for performing orchestras
* The Hedgehog Concept, from Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap...And Others Don't by Jim Collins

This is exactly the point. There is art music, and there is popular music...EVEN within "classical music". POP classical music, is the movie stuff...the things that are recognizeable. The harmonies are relevant (mostly) to what people here in Pop, rock, country etc....(rap!)...

People very much recognize this music. But the "classical music" peopel refer to is from the age of mozart, beethoven, brahms...etc.....isn't it funny that at Mozart's time, they rarely played things a century old, and here we are playing mozarts stuff still...and TRYING to make orchestral livings off of it?? People need to be interested and entertained.

But there are two kinds of music anyways. The "movie music" is a classical pop music....I enjoy it and I write in that style often. The 'art' music that is more modern tend to be exclusive to the "classical" or music student. This is fine, but don't complain about the acceptance of the music. It is hard for people to branch out of what they first "enjoy". If you want listeners in 'classical' settings, they need to have exposure with familiarity first.

I do disagree however with labeling the movie music composers as being the most talented music writers.

It requires more than talent to succeed in the movie music industry. You need to be charming, have a clean appearance, be intellectual and also be willing to be told HOW and WHAT to write within bound contracts. Having said that, it takes a certain non-musical talent to succeed in this field.

Being an art-music composer does not make you less of a composer. It just refers to the medium and purpose of your composition.

Movie music requires melodies, recognizeable harmonies...in fact, the only real musical "challenge" to movie compositions is tone color, sound quality and instrumentation etc...

Art composers, (good ones that is) have mastered this (usually).

Because they are two different syles, you cannot compare them either. (movie music composers/art composers).

This is like comparing a rapper and a person who creates tv commercial jungles....each have their own talent for what they do. No matter where they draw their inspiration from...but EACH have their OWN creations that are only compareable in their own field.

As for the commercial...........

I was shocked, I laughed, I got angry....

It was GOOD commercial. it was trying to sell. It was not in my opinion disrespectful solely because 50 cent took a "classic" and made it "better" by his own tune. Look at it this way...

he showed that an ORCHESTRA can be behind even pop-culture music...

Let's not make assumptions and try and decide what OTHERS are thinking. The fact is the commerical was made. We can evaluate what it looks like, but we can't make assumptions about intentions.

personally, mozart..beethoven...I love it....but why play things over and over again? In this day and age, the "youth" and people everywhere experience change in their music on a daily basis...there's always something new out there, so therefore we need to always have something new as well. Classic's are a foundation, but not the building.

You can't force your music onto someone else...you have to cause someone else to want to experience your music.

[Rick Denney]

It requires more than talent to succeed in the movie music industry. You need to be charming, have a clean appearance, be intellectual and also be willing to be told HOW and WHAT to write within bound contracts. Having said that, it takes a certain non-musical talent to succeed in this field.

Being an art-music composer does not make you less of a composer. It just refers to the medium and purpose of your composition.

I would submit that those ancillary qualities are required in all pursuits, if one is to define success in terms of groceries on the table.

In all environments, the most talented gravitate to the places of the greatest reward. It's true that not everyone measures that reward financially. But most do, at least in part. So, let me amend my statement as follows: Most of the most talented composers are composing for the movies. They may be doing other things, but they are successful because of what they are doing at the movies.

I disagree that art music must eschew recognizable melody and harmony, or that movie music always embraces it. As I listen to the soundtrack of the original Star Wars movie, I hear much that would be beyond the conception of composers 100 years ago. I've heard accusations that Williams is warmed-over Holst, but that's okay with me; I like Holst.

But even in high-brow circles, we play the Nutcracker Suite and a suite from Swan Lake, and those were no less commercial and programmatic than is Star Wars.

Even "art" composers must consider what can be absorbed by the receivers of that art. It's a strictly modernistic assumption that the receivers of art don't matter, with the resulting increased separation between art and culture. Pushing boundaries isn't the same thing as hostility to the tastes of the masses. But I don't worry about that--the market will sort it out, and any attempts by the musical elite to enforce their idea of culture (whatever that idea happens to be at the moment) doesn't have much chance of success. Sometimes it comes back, and other times it recedes completely into well-earned obscurity.

Since we can't tell which of the "art" music will earn its way and which won't, it makes sense to provide a little diversity in the programs. A well-crafted concert program might have a historical work (presented as such), a new mainstream work, and then something that will challenge the audience. Only that way will new music get tested. Those are also entertaining programs, especially when the challenging music is presented as a challenge. When it is presented as a mutual exploration between the symphony and the audience, it validates the audience's reaction even if negative. And in that validation, it opens the audience to new experiences instead of trying to make them feel guilty for hating something that is unlistenable.

The middle work in my ideal program would sometimes be concert suites of movie music. After all, we hear concert suites of Alexander Nevsky, and that is movie music. The difference is that the elite have tried to define art as being opposed to commerce, and in so doing has undermined appreciation for the orchestral music audiences are apt to appreciate. In my view, that's a huge mistake, and one that would never have occurred to most composers of the past.

Rick "who would love to hear a well-arranged suite from Silverado, for example" Denney

[Albertibass]

yes it is "just a commercial," but the way it is carried out does seem a bit disrespectful. And yes i understand the whole "music is music" argument. That is fine. I just appreciate it when you have somebody from say 50's background, who actually expresses there respect for Beethoven and other composers of "classical" music.

The past 4 years where i was in high school, was a learning experience. Being a tuba player, we sit at the back of the ensemble, and that usually means we are sitting near the "percussionists." I understand there are some who care, but there has been a trend over the past few years, of people signing up to take band as a "free class." And these students have no respect for the music the band is playing, and just listening to them talk kinda grinds my gears.

[djwesp]

Wow. I don't consider this really input, but here's some observations....


1. Some people seem to respond to certain posters, regardless. In an attempt to flame them. When someone has a hard time expressing themselves, a few posters take it upon themselves to hunt down every single one of their posts and tear it apart.

2. There is a very negative stereotype about arts in the south, Arkansas specifically, that just isn't true. (Yes, I have lived elsewhere, so my perspective isn't as narrow as the people you attack)

3. Some people don't realize, that their reaction is one of the reasons that "classical music snob" is actually a term used often.

4. Rap in general, has been stealing from ALL genres of music for years. Rock/Rap collaborations, blatant theft of classical melodies. They are open minded and will cut, paste, steal, at all costs for the sound they want--- and the sound they THINK will make money.



Wes "who doesn't really agree with anyone on this thread, just thinks the personal attacks and stereotypes are a bit much" Pendergrass

[lgb&dtuba]

So, why is what Peter Schickele does any different than 50 cent? Schickele doesn't seem to draw fire here like this commercial has. And he's certainly done his share of poking fun at classical music.

I looked at the commercial and the out takes over on You Tube, and I don't see more to it than just a little humor. Anyone else notice the viola player hawking bootleg 50 cent cds to a couple of other tuxes?

This lack of a sense of humor is what reenforces the idea that classical musicians are a bunch of stuffed shirts.

It's just a commercial. You really should relax.

[sc_curtis]

I don't hate you or anything...I just find your posts ignorant. Do some research and listen to these rappers.

I would suppose that the courses offered in "Rappology" are located in the same building as are found the "Women's Studies" classes...??

One man's "ignorance" might be another man's "sanity/sanctuary"...??

bloke "who has noticed that, at least in my local urban libraries, probably 95% of the biographies of notable pre-1960's Americans in the juvenile sections of the branches have been discarded (burned...??) and replaced with endless biographies pertaining to Oprah, basketball players, comedians, movie stars, et al"

Wasnt this kinda racist?

Exactly how is it racist? Are you implying that basketball players, comedians, and movie stars are all of one race? To me, asking if that statement is racist alerts me to some pre-conceived notions on your part.

[Frank Byrne]

Talk about the use of music in commercials -- when I was very young (c.1960) I remember a TV commercial where the Vienna Philharmonic (aka the WIENER Philharmoniker) played the Oscar Meyer wiener theme at an outdoor amplitheater in Vienna. The announcer and the on-screen titling played on the "Wiener Philharmonic" thing. I don't know if anyone else recalls ever seeing this. My, how far we have come.