How much is TOO much?

[djwesp]

***if you want to post an individual practice regimen/schedule, I would be greatly interested, especially if you explain your experience level***

I practice at least 2 hours a day, regardless of situation. I usually average closer to 28 hours per week on the instrument. I do not count mouthpiece buzzing, as I'm usually doodling with something else while I do it. Every once in a while I take a weekend off, for my chops to recover, especially if I've been hitting the high range a lot.

My "experience level" is not really something I can comment on. Other than the fact I practice a lot, I perform a lot, I have a background in the Drum Corps activity, and I've played almost all of the standard tuba literature. Commenting much more on that would be assinine and be setting myself up for flame bait.


1. I begin each day with light mouthpiece buzzing. I usually begin with a tuner for pitch, and do 1-5-1 slurs, down the chormatic series, then back up.

2. In the mornings I make every attempt to do my warm up, otherwise I do it 45 minutes before I'm supposed to play/practice/do a gig. This warm up is broken down into several parts.
A. The entire J.D. Shaw/Sam Pilafian slur warm up, all the way down the finger series.
B. Sam's "Smooth Air Movement Exercise", to the lowest range possible.
C. Legato-Staccato Articulation Exercises
D. Tongue acceleration exercises.
E. Do to Sol sixteenth double tonguing on each finger series.
F. I then do the Hipbone Music 20 Minute Warm Up by Michael Davis.
G. If it is an odd day, I do every minor scale, in every mode, full range. Evens are majors.
H. I do one of the Michael Underwood, "Amazing Grace" lip slur variations.
I. I go to my "bucket of doom" an randomly select one a chip, that determines a key for a bill bell exercise. I do this usually 5 times.

I put all of this warm up material in a grey 3 inch holed binder. I'd be more than happy to make a copy of all the materials except the Hipbone stuff.

3. In my "practice session" I determine what I am playing and when I am playing it. I begin each new piece at an extremely slow rate, with the metronome. Depending on how long until the performance, I increase the speed to a vary degree each time. I will play all parts down or up octaves, until I have facilitated pitch well enough to perform it proficiently at the desired speed in the correct register. If I make any "concentration" errors, I repeat the entire page---regardless of where I am at in the music. Repeated errors, mean that I increased the metronome too quickly and I return to a lower speed.

4. In every practice session I also take a famous tune, and attempt to play it in a new key. I also steal as much music as possible from other instruments, and read that, trying to gain transposing and lyrical/phrasing skills that are difficult for our instrument to handle.

[Chuck Jackson]

***if you want to post an individual practice regimen/schedule, I would be greatly interested, especially if you explain your experience level***

I practice at least 2 hours a day, regardless of situation. I usually average closer to 28 hours per week on the instrument. I do not count mouthpiece buzzing, as I'm usually doodling with something else while I do it. Every once in a while I take a weekend off, for my chops to recover, especially if I've been hitting the high range a lot.

My "experience level" is not really something I can comment on. Other than the fact I practice a lot, I perform a lot, I have a background in the Drum Corps activity, and I've played almost all of the standard tuba literature. Commenting much more on that would be assinine and be setting myself up for flame bait.


1. I begin each day with light mouthpiece buzzing. I usually begin with a tuner for pitch, and do 1-5-1 slurs, down the chormatic series, then back up.

2. In the mornings I make every attempt to do my warm up, otherwise I do it 45 minutes before I'm supposed to play/practice/do a gig. This warm up is broken down into several parts.
A. The entire J.D. Shaw/Sam Pilafian slur warm up, all the way down the finger series.
B. Sam's "Smooth Air Movement Exercise", to the lowest range possible.
C. Legato-Staccato Articulation Exercises
D. Tongue acceleration exercises.
E. Do to Sol sixteenth double tonguing on each finger series.
F. I then do the Hipbone Music 20 Minute Warm Up by Michael Davis.
G. If it is an odd day, I do every minor scale, in every mode, full range. Evens are majors.
H. I do one of the Michael Underwood, "Amazing Grace" lip slur variations.
I. I go to my "bucket of doom" an randomly select one a chip, that determines a key for a bill bell exercise. I do this usually 5 times.

I put all of this warm up material in a grey 3 inch holed binder. I'd be more than happy to make a copy of all the materials except the Hipbone stuff.

3. In my "practice session" I determine what I am playing and when I am playing it. I begin each new piece at an extremely slow rate, with the metronome. Depending on how long until the performance, I increase the speed to a vary degree each time. I will play all parts down or up octaves, until I have facilitated pitch well enough to perform it proficiently at the desired speed in the correct register. If I make any "concentration" errors, I repeat the entire page---regardless of where I am at in the music. Repeated errors, mean that I increased the metronome too quickly and I return to a lower speed.

4. In every practice session I also take a famous tune, and attempt to play it in a new key. I also steal as much music as possible from other instruments, and read that, trying to gain transposing and lyrical/phrasing skills that are difficult for our instrument to handle.

Damn, just reading about your warm-up wore me out. Wish I had your chops, or some of them, maybe just a little, **** I'd settle for a skoosh......


I spent three weeks with my wife at Meadowmount (real geeky super string camp) back in the day and sat in on her quartet rehearsal with Joseph Gingold coaching. The 2nd violinist was getting particulary frustrated at a passage in Beethoven. Gingold grabbed his violin, played it perfectly and handed it back. The guy stares increduously at Gingold and tells him he has practiced it hours, to which Gingold said "Did you play it backwards?" No was the answer and Gingold says "Why waste your time going in the direction you know, go a different direction each day and never practice more than 2 hours, it's all in your perspective". Pretty interesting exchange. How much is too much? You are asking the wrong people. Ask yourself after you have worked on let's say a Blazevich until you feel it's really cranking. TAPE IT. Get up the next morning and listen to it. You will have your answer. It's not the time, it's the approach.

Chuck

[tubatom91]

8+ hours seems excessive...

[djwesp]

Damn, just reading about your warm-up wore me out. Wish I had your chops, or some of them, maybe just a little, **** I'd settle for a skoosh......
Chuck

No Sir, It is less than it sounds like. It is only about 40 minutes worth of warm up/workout.

One thing I like doing is using other excellent musicians as a resources. I know they didn't get to be good by picking their noses, talking on internet forums, or playing expensive equipment. So, every bit of time I'm with a good player, I try to steal as much stuff that they do and apply it to my playing and my workout routine. These players are an excellent source of knowledge on how to be great, using their input can cut out a lot of the middle man and time wasted while trying to figure out how to get better.

In the fall of 05, I made a list of my biggest weaknesses as a player, percieved and observed by others. I put them in a list, then I prioritized them, and set out to find all the exercises and warmups that would emphasize those weaknesses daily. I did this not to "go thru the motions" or whatever Mr. UNT was trying to call me out for, but so that each day I could get better at the things I'm weakest at. Doing this has made preparation of pieces much more easy and convenient.

Wes "who thinks chuck would be a good guy to take lessons from, and gather even more input" Pendergrass

[Roger Lewis]

He's right. We all have a closet in our heads where we put all the things we KNOW we don't do well (we usually refer to these to ourselves as "the can'ts....) and we lock it and stay away from it, because it will make us sound like bad players in the practice room when others walk by.

Too many people get a burr under their saddles and decide to tackle these things - and try to do it all at once. After failing miserably, it all goes back into the closet and we put more and stronger locks on it and walk away in defeat and almost never look back.

The key to mastering your "closet" is to take small bites. Take one thing and one thing ONLY out of the closet and beat it into submission (or figure out the "gimmick") and add it to some point in your daily schedule to keep it fresh. ONLY THEN, do you approach the closet and take one single other thing out and begin wrestling with that one.

We have fences in our heads as well, and we usually live in the comfortable area inside the fences, rarely venturing out because it is uncomfortable out there. As you, piece-by-piece, master the items from your closet, the fences move back - increasing your comfort zone. Eventually through diligent (smart) practice, the fences are gone, at least until you find another things that you struggle with and the process begins anew.

Just a little "Rogerism"

Roger

[adam0408]

I have been struggling with low range sound for the past year. I seem to have made no headway. How would you advise me to tackle it?

I play out of the wes jacobs and snedecor books almost every day

[pierso20]

try some different books, different excercises. Staying on the same routine can nullify your efforts.

[Chuck Jackson]

I have been struggling with low range sound for the past year. I seem to have made no headway. How would you advise me to tackle it?

I play out of the wes jacobs and snedecor books almost every day

I have always felt that tuba players are predelicted to have a strong upper register or strong lower register. I have met a few that were naturally gifted on both. I struggled my whole career to maintain a high register to a G above the staff, I was only comfortable on a daily basis to C. I had/still have oddly enough despite having FD, an incredible amount of facility From the 2nd partial down to the fundamental. Maybe you're wired the opposite, but you can have a good working low register by practicing alot. It's one of those things like me playing high, it always sounded "practiced" and not natural, but I was gainfully employed. Don't sweat it, just keep at it. There is no magic cure, no advice that you haven't already heard, you should just keep at it and don't let it get in your head.

Chuck

[Roger Lewis]

like high range, is a gimmick, a trick. There is nothing hard involved except when we try to do it on our own and fail, because we don't know the trick, and therefore we automatically assume that it must be "hard". To get an idea of what I'm saying, read my posts on this thread from November 2004:

viewtopic.php?t=4051&highlight=high+range

It explains how to get the high range working for you but also explains the physics of what is happening.

My first question to you would be, which lip is doing the work. One is vibrating against the other. I'm thinking that your lower lip is doing the work. I have seen this countless times. The sound you're getting is very tight and strident sounding. This is usually the symptom. If you play a note on the horn and then keep your embouchure in the same position and remove the horn, which way is the air going? If the air is going up, then the lower lip is doing the work.

If the air is going down, then you need to get into the mouthpiece more, open the jaw more and get your throat to feel as though you are playing over a yawn. By getting into the mouthpiece I mean you need to pucker both lips out and into the mouthpiece.

Hold your hand at arms length in front of your face, about 6 inches below your eyes, with the palm facing towards you. Now, without moving your head but by focusing your lips, blow air at the hand. You will find that you have to pucker out with the lower lip especially to get it to work. Now the airstream is still going forward and slightly down, but you are puckering out. If you BUZZ air at your hand, you will find that you get a slow speed buzz, a low register buzz. Then practice it until your low register opens up.

Remember - it's not hard. Babies and monkeys can buzz - it ain't hard.

Good luck. Call me if you need clarification on anyof this.

Roger

[Chuck Jackson]

Roger,

When you first started playing, did you find it easier to play high than low? I don't refute your "gimmick" statement, but I sense that by your explanation that you had to learn to play low. I am not arguing with your conceptual statements, they seem quite sound, but my contention is that we are either born low players who have to learn to play high or the opposite. I have no doubt that one can master either range, but sometimes we get lost in the "process" instead of just "doing it".

Chuck

[Steve Inman]

My first question to you would be, which lip is doing the work. One is vibrating against the other. I'm thinking that your lower lip is doing the work. I have seen this countless times. The sound you're getting is very tight and strident sounding. This is usually the symptom.

Deja vu ... I'm hearing the voice of Roger Lewis in my head ....




Steve "don't EVEN GO NEAR Tubadome unless you want a free lesson / consultation tacked onto your shopping trip" Inman (thanks, Roger!!!)

[Roger Lewis]

when I started out I had neither great high range nor great low range. I had to figure both out. I spent a lot of frustrating hours working on high register and would then balance (to rest my chops) with low register work.

Low register was harder when I really started bucking down and working on it. I would do three hours of practice a day - just in the low register. After a couple of hours it would get better, but then I would take a break and it would be gone again. I finally realized it was my moustache and after shaving that off I had low register for DAYS.

Building strength in both of these registers is where diligence pays off. Anyone can squeak out a high F, but it will often sound "like a blue jay farting in an empty silo" as a friend of mine used to say.

I was never shown the "trick" so I had to figure it out for myself. I try, whenever I can, to share the revelation I had with as many people as possible because there was a lot of angst spent by me trying to figure it out that really wasn't necessary. My teachers never showed me the trick, so I am like the Johnny Appleseed of range, spreading the word about how Easy it is, not how HARD it is. This isn't "rocket surgery" as a friend of mine puts it.

I'd be happy to help anyone who has any questions. You know where to find me.

13(th) !!!
Roger

[pwhitaker]

I think that practice routines are peculiar to the individual.

I've been told I have an extreme range - sub contra D (9 ledger lines down) up to F top line treble clef. For me the key is 3 and 4 octave warmup scales and large mpc's (35+ mm). I also play many tunes in BBb and then down a fourth to FF. This works the lower register. A really nice piece is Down in the Deep Cellar in low F. Because I don't read music much any more (bad eyes) I do all of this from memory. I like to play Greensleeves in 3 different octaves, as well as Danny Boy and other such tunes. I also do lots of intervals (fifths, octaves, 2 octaves), double and triple tongueing, and some slurring from time to time. I am also learning multiphonics and try to keep up my rotary breathing (Closer Walk all the way thru with no breaths). At my age (66) it takes me a good 15-20 minutes to get my chops loose and find that low (2+3+4+5 CC) tones are the fastest way for me to do this.
This is pretty much the same for me on Eb's as well as BBb's, although I really like the 1291 BBb 5V with the two full step 5th valve slide for this kind of playing.
I generally play like this for 2 hours on days with no gigs or 45 minutes early AM on gig days. Since all of my gigs are trad jazz I don't have to sound as pretty as I did for the concert band, musicals or quintet work. This has been my routine for the past 10 years or so - since I quit quintet work and play only Dixieland. Prior to that I did the usual etudes, Arban etc.

[LoyalTubist]

What do you need to play tuba? Good tone and be able to play the music well in all the registers you are expected to play in. The most important register is the cash register--the area right in the middle of the horn. If you can't do that well, you really cannot play. Oh, and don't guess at rhythms, either!

[Wyvern]

Oh, and don't guess at rhythms, either!

Now that is something I am never sure how to practice, except by doing lots of sight reading. Any thoughts anyone?

Jonathan "who would list improving reading of rhythms as something he needs to work on"

[pierso20]

The best thing to do for rhythms is to sightread them without your horn. Practice singing them at all sorts of speeds.

Second, before playing ANY of your pices, etudes, excercises, sing it out and concentrate on rhythms. If you KNOW your piece well before you try playing it, it can help you with rhythms.

Also, taking slower tempos, or practicing alternate rhythms can help.

The Blazevich book is a good example.

[LoyalTubist]

For rhythms, start slowly, using a metronome. Think of notes as being chopped up into equal sections. This is what's called subdivision.

One of the hardest things I have noticed in teaching beginners (and I had this problem, too, when I was young) is that when you are playing music that is nothing but whole notes, the notes don't get exactly four beats, it you put space between the notes. There needs to be some daylight between notes.