I was told that it is because the oboe makes the cleanest sound. The oboe is the resonator that makes the best sinus wave with the least amount of false overtones. And that is why the orchestra tunes to the oboe. Am I right??
An oboe tone is more like a square wave, which contributes to its distinctive sound. The instrument producing a tone most like a sine wave is a flute.
(Although strangely, a soft held tone from many brass instruments is also fairly sinusoidal!)
Removing the 5th valve from a Conn 5XJ CC tuba improves its playing characteristics.
Stop that!
Steve Inman
Yamaha YEB-381 Eb
Conn 56J CC
Willson-Marzan CC Solo Model
Kokomo Chamber Brass
I agree. I always thought we tuned to the oboe because the oboe cannot inherently "pull out or push in" anything in the way of a tuning slide. As I have tried to make this point to the members of the brass quintet I am in (to no avail, alas), it's not important that we're in tune with a piano, or a strobe tuner, or even A=440 for that matter. (With apologies to anyone with perfect pitch) What is important rather, is that we are in tune with EACH OTHER.
The remarks also remind me of what Abe Torchinsky said after that monumental album of antiphonal music of Gabrieli recorded by the brass sections of the Philadelphia, Cleveland, and Chicago orchestras. After the recording sessions were done, over a beer a few of them realized that during the making of the entire album, they had forgotten to tune their instruments!
Remember that this custom was initiated long before the days of tuners.
What instrument is ALWAYS included, no matter the instrumentation, and having it's tone holes already bored, can't adjust the tuning largely in any meaningful way?
The brass weren't always there. A wooden flute was probably harder to hear. The bassoon was a bit low for the violins. The clarinet was, well, the clarinet, and therefore hard for the other winds to match at whim. Any string is naturally going to tend by design to be sharp. What are you left with, the tymps?
Speaking of which, it reminds me of my senior recital with orchestra, the middle movement of the Vaughan Williams. The first note is a D, which was terribly flat on my Marzan, which, of course, had main slide tuning of every note.
I had quietly tuned the D to the orchestra during the prior piece, so when the conductor had the oboe proudly play an A for me I just waved it off. It was the first of many times I have witnessed a conductor turn apoplectic.
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
bloke wrote:Fellahs, I am the worst (terrible/horrible/hopeless) HACK oboe player you could ever imagine, and I can bend pitches on ANY oboe (from Bundy - to Fox - to Loree - to Laubin...with a horrible plastic reed, a cheap-*** Jones reed, or with the finest most amazing professionally-made Tabuteau-style reed one could ever dream of) a LOT...
...low pitches, middle pitches, high pitches.
With my extremely limited experience, I agree with you...the problem is not bending pitches all over the place, though; the problem is bending them so they are IN TUNE.
However, I have learned already that the length of the reed when it is made has a whole lot to do with where the pitch of the oboe ends up; I was told the pitch of the "bare" reed when blown without compression etc, is a C.
MaryAnn wrote:
With my extremely limited experience,
MA,
When I spent a half semester on oboe in Music Ed (double reed class) I really enjoyed it and did reasonably well for a double reed hack. It can be a very fun, very musical, instrument. However, what really kicked my butt was the bassoon. I could hardly make heads or tails of it and dreaded those weekly lessons. To me, bassoon was an instrument that should have died out several hundred years ago. One of the other tuba-playing music ed majors was the reverse; he hated oboe but loved bassoon.
I think in an ensemble, you should always tune to a "fixed pitch source." For example, if you're playing music with mallot percussion parts (ie marimba, xylophone, etc.) the ensemble really should be tuning to them. If the rest of the ensemble is in tune with itself, and the mallet percussion part isn't in tune with the rest of the ensemble, there isn't a darn the mallets can do to change thier pitch.
Having said that, however, I don't believe that good musicians spend a long time tuning at the beginning of a rehearsal or performance. The whole secret to tuning is using your ears and adjusting yourself on the fly as needed, IMO. If you're playing with inexperienced musicians who tune to instrument X perfectly, I'd imagine the playing will still be out of tune because you've only tuned 1 out of 12 tones. The secret is all in the listening and adjusting.
jonesbrass wrote: .....Having said that, however, I don't believe that good musicians spend a long time tuning at the beginning of a rehearsal or performance. ..... The secret is all in the listening and adjusting.....
Agreed! Whenever I play in a professional group, I find that we spend very little time tuning and a lot of time listening. Most of the clarinet players (remember concert bands not orchestras) use an electronic tuner set to A=440 to produce his/her tuning Bb, so variation between groups is much reduced these days.
On my good old Besson 967S Sovereign the horn and my embouchure have been stable enough that I haven't moved the tuning slide over 1/8" in the 25 years I have owned it. I have one position (out about 1/2") for my DW 4AL mouthpiece and another (out about 1") for the VB 6 1/2AL that I sometimes use. Once I am warmed up, the only times I have to futz with the tuning slide is at extremes of temperature or when playing in a less experienced group that has serious intonation problems.
MartyNeilan wrote:
To me, bassoon was an instrument that should have died out several hundred years ago.
I read that attempts to improve it met with successful resistance from the French musical establishment, who more or less ruled the roost at the time, because in their view the difficulties and inadequacies were on their own an essential requirement if you were to have an authentic bassoon. The improvements made it easier to play, with a more consistent tone and greater dynamic range, and therefore it suffered in comparison with the original. Don't know how much truth there is in that, but you know, it's thanks to hard core traditionalism like this that we have the (not) modern symphony orchestra.
I found the bassoon actually easier to play than I expected, but it's hard to get much of a thrill out of it.
[quote="MartyNeilan
One of the other tuba-playing music ed majors was the reverse; he hated oboe but loved bassoon.
Have you had any experience with bassoon yet? [/quote]
I was like that. I really dug the bassoon,(in fact, I practiced it more than the trombone- that's probably why I'm a chef now...), really dug the flute (and still do) liked saxophone, tolerated the clarinet, and couldn't play oboe worth a damn. Obviously, woodwind ped. was the one bright spot in my one miserable semester as a music ed. major.
bardus est ut bardus probo, Bill Souder
All mushrooms are edible, some are edible only once.
OldsRecording wrote:I was like that. I really dug the bassoon,(in fact, I practiced it more than the trombone- that's probably why I'm a chef now...), really dug the flute (and still do) liked saxophone, tolerated the clarinet, and couldn't play oboe worth a damn. Obviously, woodwind ped. was the one bright spot in my one miserable semester as a music ed. major.
Single reeds / flute was a separate class for me from doubles. I hated clarinet; absolutely hated it. Flute was very difficult at first and I had to seek extra tutoring, but once I mastered blowing into ther headjoint by itself things fell into place with the complete instrument. That extra attention really helped when I had to teach flute to others. And (please don't kick me off the board for saying this) I really did like the saxophone; alto wasn't too bad to pick up and tenor was even easier, I guess because of the slightly looser embouchure. (The school only taught alto, but I had bought an old tenor* for my wife at the time and was able to very quickly pick it up.)
MaryAnn wrote:
With my extremely limited experience,
MA,
When I spent a half semester on oboe in Music Ed (double reed class) I really enjoyed it and did reasonably well for a double reed hack. It can be a very fun, very musical, instrument. However, what really kicked my butt was the bassoon. I could hardly make heads or tails of it and dreaded those weekly lessons. To me, bassoon was an instrument that should have died out several hundred years ago. One of the other tuba-playing music ed majors was the reverse; he hated oboe but loved bassoon.
Have you had any experience with bassoon yet?
Well, that was my initial idea this summer....picked one up off eBay (they sent the *wrong* one, a Linton, when I had bought a Cabart...) and found I could not reach the distance between the left thumb and the left forefinger. Hands just not big enough (reminded me of piston tubas...) and I sent it back. I already had the oboe, and well, gee, it IS easier to carry...so I went after it. But I have no trouble blowing bassoon; double reeds seem to be in my general talent area, as opposed to single reeds, on which I make unmitigated screeching noises.
Even though I was a performance major (violin) I took the wind classes for ed majors; always did like to play with winds. Still like to.
Bob1062 wrote:
I haven't played any low reeds in years, and sold my (nice) Bundy resonite clarinet
Houston, we have a conflict in terms, here. The words "nice" and "Bundy" have been used in the same sentence. That is the rough equivalent to using the terms "great" and "Chinese" when describing a tuba.
