F tuba

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:09 pm

I am OFFICIALLY and 100% in the market for an F tuba.

So..this is a looking to buy post...AND a what to buy post.

I know what's out there and have played a few things already. I am not very attached to piston or rotary. I prefer pistons, but if the rotarty horn plays better, then shoot..I gotta get it.

I want the horn to use primarily as a solo horn/quintet horn, but if the occasion calls for it, it needs to at least be able to keep up in the orchestra.

I have done some research and seen what is out there. I don't really think I want a 6/4 F horn...seems to me, it defeats the F's purpose. Unless, of course I play one that is outstanding to me.

Anyway, any and all help in this would be appreciated.

Also....what do you all think of the miraphone 181? i've played a few F's but not that one. How does it compare to the Firebird (not as a better or worse, but differences).

Thanks!!

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:28 pm

yeah I SAW that!!!!!!

...........I have moola for an F...but if I got that and it was amazing........

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:56 pm

gooooood point!

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:36 pm

pierso20, I don't know if you can get there, but you owe it to yourself to go try a bunch out somewhere before you by. IMHO, you've got to at least try the Cerveny 653 at Dillon's (if they have on in stock) before you commit to spending twice as much. Good luck!!

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:46 pm

yes, I've been hearing a lot about the cerveny horn.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:33 pm

AND...it seems like it's pretty dang small. How big of a sound can you comfortably get?

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:29 pm

So Bob, what are those Eb's that your signature keeps talking about? Do you have a really tiny one (say, 0.620 bore and 13" bell)?

I've been thinking about playing the tuba part in the Bellon quintets on a tiny Eb instead of a euphonium.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:25 pm

Bob1062 wrote:I don't know ANYTHING about the Bellon quintets; indeed I have never heard the name before now.

Jean FranÃ§ois Victor Bellon (1795-1869) wrote a set of 12 quintets for brass. Instrumentation was Eb flugel, Bb cornet, horn, trombone, ophicleide. All were written around 1850, making them some of the earliest of the genre (when Bellon died, Victor Ewald was only 9 years old).

They've only recently (2000) been published by Editions BIM and are available from Robert King. The ophicleide part might fit a very small Eb/F tuba, but right now I'm using a euphonium.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:56 am

i may be able to snag a besson 983. I really like the horn....and i like the idea of an Eb.....how do they fair in orchestra playing? Does it fit the "sound"?

Also.......I'd prefer an F...because it has more common fingerings with CC....I guess I'm just lazy..haha

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:57 pm

pierso20 wrote:Also.......I'd prefer an F...because it has more common fingerings with CC....I guess I'm just lazy..haha

As far as "fingerings in common", I think that F has far more fingerings (for a given note) in common with BBb than with CC. Eb has about the same number in common with BBb--and a fair number with CC.

Either way, play the horn for awhile and you'll be fine. Fingerings don't change--just the starting note.

Although the 983 might well work in orchestra, the usual Eb tuba used for all-around orchestra use in the UK is the big-bell 981. Much will depend on the requirements of the work being performed, however.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:33 pm

Greg wrote: I should think the more common fingerings you have the more brain slips into the wrong set of fingerings you would also have.

now that makes perfect sense.

I guess i just have to play around and seeeeee what i like.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:58 pm

and we alllllll love analogies

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:00 pm

I have seen the error in my ways...(or thinking rather)....so lets get back to the original topic.....

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:14 pm

annnd.........sorry

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:35 pm

Doc wrote:
the elephant wrote:The more common fingerings the harder it is to really think clearly in the new tuba's "language" when sight reading.
13
Learn it from scratch.

No--the second or third or fourth tuba in a different key that you learn is in no wise learned from scratch. Hopefully, you did all the hard work when you learned the first one and your fingers already "know" their way through most common scales and arpeggios.

Learning a second tuba is far easier than learning the first--and it's not from scratch. At least not if you've been doing your homework.

Languages are like that--once you get the hang of learning the structure of a couple, additional ones tend to be mostly vocabulary and idiomatic expressions. You're not struggling with the notion of future perfect subjective tense and mood.

You've already learned what to look for.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:26 pm

the elephant wrote:You need to think in the new language so to speak. You need to play F tuba and not "F tuba as it relates to CC tuba" if you see what I am trying to say.

Yes, I made that mistake when learning CC, in starting to transpose fingerings from my familiar Eb - that causes pitching confusion and slows ones reading.

pierso20 wrote:i may be able to snag a besson 983. I really like the horn....and i like the idea of an Eb.....how do they fair in orchestra playing? Does it fit the "sound"?

Well, I cannot see why it should not work. My M-W 2040/5, which is similar in size to a 983, I have used for even large orchestral works with no complaints. You will not get the depth of sound of a CC in the low register, but it will work if you put enough into it. It is just a lot harder work than with a larger tuba.

Jonathan "who only this week heard a 983 for the first time, and liked its sound"

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:47 pm

I'm actually very surprised with how much I've been hearing about the cerveny horns.....and for the price it is MOST definetely worth investigating. I just am not sure if I would be able to make it out to Dillon's....it's a bit far for me.

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:39 am

I made the 20+ hr round trip to WWBW and tubadome.It was a valuable part of my tuba education(which,hopefully,is a lifelong process).Get some buddies together,see who has the best car,chip in for gas,food,and beverages.You might even be able to find a tubenetter who'll let you camp out at their place when you get there.Make it into an adventure....

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:25 pm

Doc wrote:Not to discourage anyone, but I'm going to rant a little...

If you've got enough dough to buy an F tuba, then you have enough dough to fly out there and check it out, or at least have one shipped to you for trials. Wait... you don't have enough? That's a problem. Many people don't realize that there is much more to consider than just the price of the instrument itself. They don't take into account the necessary travel expenses, shipping expenses (both ways), case, bag, mouthpiece, etc. If you aren't prepared to deal with all that, then you haven't finished preparing. All that is part of the deal. Gotta include that in the thinking process, as well as the savings plan.

Too far? PFFT! That's what airplanes are for. There are no excuses. Get a ticket and go. If you can't afford a ticket and a tuba, then keep saving.

Doc

I've seen your rants before about having the money and etc. and really, it's a bunch of bull.

I am not made of money. If I only have enough money to bet the horn, then would you suggest that I just don't get one when I need it??

I see your point, but for a 20 year old, living on my own and receiving on assistance from my jerk parents....it's not exactly easy for me to even have the money to buy a horn...so really, your argument is NOT applicable in my case.

2 reasons....

1)....saving the money till now has been a BITCH...
2)....Even if I had the extra money for a plane ticket OR to drive my car cannot take the beating to drive out there and I CANNOT take that time off from work, BECAUSE I am a 20 year old living alone..

So, while I see your point, and did the last time you made the argument, it does NOT apply to me. I am making the best effort I can, but I am not ready to forgo having a horn because or something like your reasoning.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:48 pm

I am not rushing at all. Otherwise I would have already bought a horn.

By the time I know what I want, I may have enough for everything else. And this is not a life experience thing. I KNOW that I can't make a rushed decision about the horn I want because otherwise you can....well, regret it.

BUT, I really can't save anymore than I have now. School is coming up, and tuition has been raised this year (of course), rent is going up, and if I "wait" I may end up using the horn money to pay other expenses.....or, it'll sit there with no new money being added....in this case it may be another YEAR before I get a horn, and honestly, I'm not trying to rush anything, but not wanting to wait a year?? Not exactly rushing.

now.......back to the original post...
I wanted to talk about horns in here, NOT having cases, driving or flying to where or the money involved.

I KNOW those are all parts of finding a horn and being happy bith your purchase, but it is not the intent of my post. Thanks