Why rotary F and piston CC?

[Wyvern]

I have noticed that the most popular combination of tubas in the US appears to be a rotary F with piston CC.

If you prefer piston, or rotary, why not have the same valve system for both tubas, so the feel is more alike?

If you are going to mix, would not a piston F for fast articulation of solos and rotary CC to avoid those big valves make sense?

Jonathan "just curious"

[djwesp]

....


Personally, it comes down to the "bubble". On CC, the bubble seems to be much more noticable. The higher the instrument the less I notice this or feel the effects of it. (on TT I feel almost no bubble at all). It makes the sound of the horn feel choppy-er to me, and really hurts valved slurs on the horn. When on F or TT, the bubble doesn't have as much of an effect.


Either way, because I'm poor, I deal with a rotor Contrabass, and love my piston Bass.

[Tubaguy56]

I personally prefer pistons to rotors, hands down, I just like the way pistons play that much more (then again, that is just me).

As for F's, those that can deal with the fact they aren't getting a rotor sound tend to go piston, just because it makes sense for solo literature.

Generally, it seems most people I know go for a rotor CC because of the short distance of valve action, which does make sense. I play piston CC, because I just like pistons that much, it's a personal preference...

[windshieldbug]

I use rotary both. Just like the way the horns I have work.

[Rick Denney]

I have noticed that the most popular combination of tubas in the US appears to be a rotary F with piston CC.

I suspect that's becaue the CC tubas mostly popularly used in U.S. orchestras are the American-style grand orchestral instruments that happen to have front-action piston valves, and the F tubas preferred are the B&S or derivative instruments that happen to have rotary valves.

I suspect that for the trendsetters (and there were different trendsetters for these trends), the valve technology was the result of their choice and not the basis for it.

Rick "who chooses the instruments and takes the valves that come with them" Denney

[tubamirum]

I hate to appear ignorant, but what is meant by TT in a previous post?

[windshieldbug]

I hate to appear ignorant, but what is meant by TT in a previous post?

Tenor Tuba

(don't feel bad; I had to go back and re-read, too!)

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Perhaps the inclination toward a rotary F is rooted in authentic orchestra playing? It seems that much of the orchestral repertoire, for which an F tuba is appropriate, was written geographically, in an area of the world, where rotary F's were prevalent. Maybe it is an attempt at authentic performance?

[windshieldbug]

Perhaps the inclination toward a rotary F is rooted in authentic orchestra playing? It seems that much of the orchestral repertoire, for which an F tuba is appropriate, was written geographically, in an area of the world, where rotary F's were prevalent. Maybe it is an attempt at authentic performance?

If that were true, then we'd hear a lot more rotary tumpets in the US...

[MikeMason]

I think Arnold Jacobs is the reason for piston CC's and the sound is the reason for rotary f's.




Mike"guilty as charged"Mason...

[Bill Troiano]

If that is true, I would also credit Harvey who used a piston CC exclusively.

[Uncle Buck]

If that is true, I would also credit Harvey who used a piston CC exclusively.

True, but Harvey's horn has not been copied by manufacturers the way Jacob's horn has. There have been a few attempts to copy Harvey's horn, but not as many, and not as successful.

Sad, though. For 99% of players, and 99% of the playing they do, a horn like Harvey's would be perfect. I can't think of a better example of why "bigger is better" is bulls***.

[Wyvern]

a horn like Harvey's would be perfect.

Excuse my ignorance, but what was Harvey's horn?

[MikeMason]

If you're referring to the 2j and 3j,they are really good horns,underrated,and therefore,undervalued.Bringing a 2j to Prok.5,Tcaik.4,etc., is bringing a knife to a gunfight.Although i'm sure there are people who could pull it off effectively.For quintet,smaller freelance gigs,and solos,absolutely yes...

[Uncle Buck]

a horn like Harvey's would be perfect.

Excuse my ignorance, but what was Harvey's horn?

Disclaimer - this answer comes from someone who has the information second-hand. I've never met Harvey - so please correct me if I'm wrong.

But, I understand that it was a normal-sized ("4/4" by some today) 4 piston valved CC tuba made by Conn.

Conn attempted to copy the horn with its 2J and 3J CC models.

[Uncle Buck]

Bringing a 2j to Prok.5,Tcaik.4,etc., is bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I played Prok. 5 with a respectable university orchestra on a 3J. I had a "5/4" Rudy Meinl at my disposal, but my professor and I worked it on both, and decided I sounded better on the 3J. I used the Rudy that same semester when we did Planets.

Of course it wouldn't have been appropriate for a large professional orchestra - but 99% of players never will play in one of those. For a "respectable university orchestra," with a "respectable" (I hope) player, it was fine.

With apologies to Rick, . . .
Uncle "realizing that I just lost some credibility from a lot of posters here with this confession" Buck

[Blake Dowling]

From what I've noticed rotary horns are always cheaper than piston regardless of key (save for a few exceptions)

[windshieldbug]

Why rotary F and piston CC?

Because bob1062 has neither!

[Wyvern]

From what I've noticed rotary horns are always cheaper than piston regardless of key (save for a few exceptions)

I have been told that rotary valves are quite a bit cheaper to make than pistons - I don't know why, but most manufacturers make their own rotary valves, while pistons are usually bought in from an external supplier. At least that was my understanding when visiting Meinl-Weston and Rudolf Meinl this year.

[Blake Dowling]

That's my understanding as well. From what I've heard, most of the European tuba "makers" use B&S Piston Valves.