King 2341 info

[Chuck(G)]

An easy player, with the usual "twirl" to get the 3rd valve slide drained. I think the upright 19" bell model plays better than the "new" fixed-bell squat 2341s.

[Rick Denney]

I am looking to buy an old king 2341 recording bell tuba for some outdoor playing. Just wondering if anyone has played one of these tubas, and can give me some insight on how they play.

They vary somewhat. If you can find one of the much older versions that have the double loop on the upper third valve slide, it may be a better instrument. That was the 1241 model, and my own experience does not refute the claim that they attained excellence more consistently than the later 2341's (still of the old style with the two-piece bell, of course).

The good ones are resonant and easy to play. Their sound is full but not as big as wider instruments--but they also avoid woofiness. Intonation is generally excellent on these instruments. If you can, buy one with the upright bell or both bells. Forward bells are relatively easy to locate, but the upright bells are more difficult to find. But get instruments with their original bells if at all possible--the 1241's in particularly reportedly were supplied with matched bells.

Note that many 1241's will be identified as 2341's by their sellers. The identifier is the double loop on the upper third valve. The 1241's also had a fixed upper first slide instead of the moveable slide of later models, and that is not an advantage, but it can be modified if you find you need a moveable slide. And even though I would prefer the 1241, the 2341 can also be excellent, though perhaps not as consistent.

Rick "who has spent some quality time with several of the older Kings" Denney

[iiipopes]

An easy player, with the usual "twirl" to get the 3rd valve slide drained. I think the upright 19" bell model plays better than the "new" fixed-bell squat 2341s.

Indeed.

[MikeMason]

Here's my opinion: After hearing hundreds of school bands at district and state concert band festival(part of my job), I really like the way the old kings sound out front.They really project great,I don't think I've ever heard a significant intonation problem out of one,and the are really sturdy.I personally would much rather play or own the new version,however.They just play alot easier to me.The feedback you get from the new one is much better too.I also like the ergonomics of the newer version better.Both are very good horns ,especially for school use and if i had to, i think i could function just fine with a newer one as my only horn(hope i don't have to ,though).

[Rick Denney]

You'll probably find a 2341 a lot more easily than you will a 1241. Chances are also better that your valves wont leak than in the case of 1241's. the 1241 hasnt been made for a really long time and valve rebuilding, while entirely worth it, is expensive. Best of luck to you in horn hunting.

When I sold a 1241 for my wife's uncle a couple of years ago, there was another similar instrument also for sale by BBC. Both were thought to be 2341's by all who looked at them. Both were 1241's. There might be more of them out there than you think, heh, heh.

Rick "and both were excellent" Denney

[Dan Schultz]

When I sold a 1241 for my wife's uncle a couple of years ago, there was another similar instrument also for sale by BBC. Both were thought to be 2341's by all who looked at them. Both were 1241's. There might be more of them out there than you think, heh, heh.

Rick "and both were excellent" Denney

I don't think King even know EXACTLY when they quit calling the 2340 tubas 1240 tubas. The 1240 series included the 1930's horn with the tuning slide in the leadpipe all the way up until serial number 780900 before June of 1980. All the valve section part interchange on the 1240 and 2340 horns. There were many subtle changes. Apparently there were no 1240 tubas market after June 1980, but there were both 1240 AND 2340 tubas market before then. It was more of a series of manufacturing changes that eventually led to the 1240 name being dropped.... probably somewhere in the King/Conn/UMI era.

Do you all know that most of the old Conn lines are now actually King tubas? If you order a Conn 14K/36K sousas, you will really get a King. The Conn 15J became the King 1140 around 1987. All of this is more-or-less a repairman's nightmare.... EXCEPT for the King 1240/2340... which has remained virtually the same horn.... with a few parts jumbled around.

There are loads of King 1240/2340 horns from the 70's still out there lurking in high school band coffers. Most are bell-front horns... which are out of favor these days. There were also some minor differences between the bugle lengths of the bell-front and the upright-bell horns. That seems a bit odd but I don't recall ever seeing a situation where the horns were sold with BOTH bells. As with the Mirafones... it was always an either/or situation.

[WakinAZ]

I don't think King even know EXACTLY when they quit calling the 2340 tubas 1240 tubas.

I was going to reply with a similar comment. Although I can't swear to it, I think there are horns around with characteristics of both of these supposedly distinct model numbers (although no model number is on the horn). E.g.; one with a movable first slide, but still with the "pretzel" double loop in the upper third valve slide. Evolution isn't always a straight line.

Many pics here, not sure if any support my recollection: http://www.kwintetgoedkoper.nl/king_2340_bbb_tuba.htm

Eric "old King fan" L.

[EdFirth]

It's hard to go wrong with a King , three or four valve , curly Q in the third slide or not , straight leadpipe or tuning in the leadpipe . They all get a classic American sound and if they don't , they can be fixed . The metal is incredibly durable and comes back from almost anything and the slides are easily converted to top pull by any good repairman (1st and 3rd) .I have owned several and any one of them could be your only horn . The detachable bell version is especially cool because there were three different bells for it , 19in. , 22in. , and the bell front . I have a detachable bell one ,the older model , with the 1st slide switched to tune from the top and the third reconfigured like the new ones . And I have a new one , which , due to it's shortness is the easiest to have quality control of .People who have invested lots of time and money in switching to C will sometimes look down their noses at one but I've been a full time pro for 37 years and haven't had a complaint from a conductor or fellow musician concerning the equipment yet . all the best , Ed

[Dan Schultz]

I don't think King even know EXACTLY when they quit calling the 2340 tubas 1240 tubas.

I was going to reply with a similar comment. Although I can't swear to it, I think there are horns around with characteristics of both of these supposedly distinct model numbers (although no model number is on the horn). E.g.; one with a movable first slide, but still with the "pretzel" double loop in the upper third valve slide. Evolution isn't always a straight line.

Many pics here, not sure if any support my recollection: http://www.kwintetgoedkoper.nl/king_2340_bbb_tuba.htm

Eric "old King fan" L.

Yep! I've had 30 or so of these things through the shop over tha last year or so. I should have documented every one of them. I swear that every darned one is a little bit different! I have three here now that are very similar but have minor differences in the bracing, slide ferrules, and tuning slides. The one I play regularly is a real freak. It's either a late 1241 or an early 2341. I've removed the double loop on the 3rd circuit and moved the 1st tuning slide to the top. Someone's going to be scratching their head over it one of these days.

[iiipopes]

And because of everything said, including personal experience when I was in high school, I believe a King tuba is the best instrument for most high school bands: durable, plentiful, easy to blow, with good intonation, and easy to repair/replace parts.

[WakinAZ]

So, I cheated and looked on Jim Self's website (Right-click>Properties). No model number listed, but the date (pre-1960) and look of the horn say 1240. Funny, the serial # on my horn also places it c. 1950 like this horn, but mine is not fixed-bell and has no loop in the leadpipe.

Eric "not above cheating and likes his leadpipe going straight into the valves" L.

[Dan Schultz]

So, what model do you think this is guys?

Without question... it's an early 1240. I think those are good horns... despite what some folks say about the tuning slide in the leadpipe. The fixed bells are very resonant. I play an Eb version of one of those (model 1235).

[Lew]

Maybe it's just me, but I find my fixed bell 2341 to play much better than my detachable bell 2341 ever did. I had a 19" upright bell for mine, and yes it was definitely a 2341, I bought it new in 1993. The low range was a struggle on the older one and it is easy on the new one. Although I had people compliment my tone on the old one, I was never really satisfied with it, while I am happy with the newer one. The 2 piece 2341 needed to be spun several times a rehearsal to empty it out, while the new one never needs this.

That said, I have a King 1291 rotary valve recording bell tuba that is a great player. When I want the sound of a recording bell or need to carry a large group by myself, that is the horn I pick up.

[Alex F]

In what year was the current model "new" King 2341 introduced?

[WakinAZ]

Maybe it's just me, but I find my fixed bell 2341 to play much better than my detachable bell 2341 ever did.

My experience has been exactly the opposite. I never liked my new King 2341 and sold it, but I really like my old 1240 (2340) and it only has three valves. There are people on both sides of this fence and some who like the old and the new models.

Eric "firmly in the old camp, but understanding differences of opinion and experience" L.

[Billy M.]

...Both are very good horns ,especially for school use and if i had to, i think i could function just fine with a newer one as my only horn...

I'd gladly take that Thor off of you, if you decide that route

[MikeMason]

Make me an offer in the 10k range,and we'll talk...

[billeuph]

Maybe it's just me, but I find my fixed bell 2341 to play much better than my detachable bell 2341 ever did.

My experience has been exactly the opposite. I never liked my new King 2341 and sold it, but I really like my old 1240 (2340) and it only has three valves. There are people on both sides of this fence and some who like the old and the new models.

Eric "firmly in the old camp, but understanding differences of opinion and experience" L.

Hard to understand from the older 2340/2341's that I've played. I've tried many and liked the sound, but the older horns don't slot as well and are a lot more trouble to play, especially high. And the 2-piece construction makes it a pain to tote in its two hard cases. My "new" 2341 is better in almost every respect, but it's still a pain to drain ...

Bill Anderson

[Dan Schultz]

I play a late 1241/early 2341 regularly. I've eliminated the double crook on the 3rd valve circuit and moved the 1st valve slide to the top. If I didn't like the flexibility of being able to switch back and forth between the recording and upright bells, I would put on a fixed recording bell from an old 1240. What's most irritating about this horn (and all other Kings of this type that I've played) is that water collects above the 1st piston. The horn can be 'rocked' to make the water run on through to the main waterkey, but it's still a pain in the butt.

This is a great topic. I've seen lots of these horns but never bothered to chart the serial numbers and individual features like braces, tuning slides, and bell styles. I'd like to see someone do a database on features and serial numbers so we can pin down when the transition between the 1240 and 2340 horns actually happened. I know there was a period in the 70's/80's where they were sold under both model numbers.

[TMurphy]

I had a new-style 2341, that I bought for college the summer of 2001, shortly after the redesign. Matt Walters at Dillons built a new tuning slide for me (so if anyone out there has a "new" King with a raw brass tuning slide that doesn't have a water key, that might be mine). It was a good horn, and I was sorry to see it go....but I couldn't afford to keep it and still buy my current horn, which works much better for me.

I've only tried a handful of older kings, and though the sound was good, I found the leadpipe position made them very uncomfortable for me to hold.