Vincent Bach 18 and the relatives

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:06 am

From personal experience, the specs on a Bach 18 are 1.26 cup diameter and a little bit wider rim. But the Bach 18's I have played have been @1.28 in actual measurement, with a narrower rim that is more like a Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece in profile. The Kelly has the narrower rim, but is deeper than the Bach. The Blessing has the wider rim, sometimes called the "Mt. Vernon" rim, and is the 1.26 diameter and the same moderate cup depth. Also, the throat of current Bach 18's is larger than the other makers or the older Bach 18's. My feel is that the larger throat makes them harder to play, not easier, as it impedes centering of intonation.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:53 am

iiipopes wrote:My feel is that the larger throat makes them harder to play, not easier, as it impedes centering of intonation.

They may require more ear, but my Marzan CC definately responds better to a bigger throat,

In short, it depends on the horn, and what it responds to best. And, as always, with ANYTHING regarding mouthpieces, there can be too many variables, and YMMV, so try it yourself, and see!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:08 pm

Indeed. A larger throat definitely takes more air, but if you have the air and a horn that can handle it, great. For most of us, the larger throat makes it more difficult to play.

Yes, the Kelly is different. But they aren't trying to make CNC copies. They are making Lexan mouthpieces to try to get the same general feel and tone, and so because of the different materials, they aren't going to slavishly copy mechanical specs because it won't sound anywhere near the reference mouthpieces doing only that. So they alter their specs on all their mouthpieces to get the same general feel and tone of the reference mouthpieces rather than any absolute numbers on a page. Even Denis Wick himself has commented favourably on the Kelly Lexan interpretation of his famous 4B cornet mouthpiece.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:12 pm

the elephant wrote:The Blessing 18 is the best mouthpiece that Bach never made.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:57 pm

windshieldbug wrote:
the elephant wrote:The Blessing 18 is the best mouthpiece that Bach never made.

Indeed.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:18 pm

Which Bach 18?

I've got a Mt. Vernon Bach 18 and it's different (smaller) than the modern version. I don't have the numbers handy, but the difference is visible.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:41 pm

the elephant wrote:My old store is going out of business. All accessories are currently 50% off of their already (inflated) "low" prices. So I can get Blessing 18s new for $40.88 plus tax

I think that's still more expensive than the Faxx model--which seem to be in the same league quality-wise.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:21 pm

the elephant wrote: That is one that I have never played on nor even seen. Good?

It's silver-plated brass, looks like a Bach at 6 inches, finish seems fine. Silverplating seems to be generous.

Faxx makes, what, five tuba mouthpieces? An 18, 24AW 25, H'berg and a 7B, I think. The claim is that they're copies of the Mt. Vernon models, but we've been down that[/b] road enough.

I've got a couple and I'm pretty satisfied with them. I've seen the H'berg going for about $30--that's a bargain.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:14 pm

I have had some of my trombone students order Faxx mouthpieces from Steve Ferguson (now hornguys) in the past, and they seemed to be top quality at rock bottom prices.

Wilco · Post by **Wilco** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:18 pm

The JK version of the bach is also very good (as with other bach clones from JK)....

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:20 am

Wilco wrote:The JK version of the bach is also very good (as with other bach clones from JK)....

Is there any reference for JK mouthpieces on-line? I've seen long lists of models with terse comments like "very deep", and now that I think of it, that's not saying much less than Bach says about theirs (since stuff like "a compelling tone of exceptional power yet devious subtlety" doesn't really say anything.) But one can always hope.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:00 am

You can always find a store that has a return policy, like Mouthpiece Express and try them all for a mere restocking fee.

Or, you can describe what you like, what you play, and where you want or need to go in detail, and find a good store with a good knowledgable person to help you, as Matt @ Dillons did for me and nailed it in one recommendation.

Wilco · Post by **Wilco** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:14 am

Donn wrote: Is there any reference for JK mouthpieces on-line? I've seen long lists of models with terse comments like "very deep", and now that I think of it, that's not saying much less than Bach says about theirs (since stuff like "a compelling tone of exceptional power yet devious subtlety" doesn't really say anything.) But one can always hope.

Those are the exclusive models with lots of shank, cup, rim - combo's. I meant the 'USA' line.

http://www.jk-klier.de/de/m_s5_2.htm