King 2341 info

[Billy M.]

...Both are very good horns ,especially for school use and if i had to, i think i could function just fine with a newer one as my only horn...

I'd gladly take that Thor off of you, if you decide that route

[MikeMason]

Make me an offer in the 10k range,and we'll talk...

[billeuph]

Maybe it's just me, but I find my fixed bell 2341 to play much better than my detachable bell 2341 ever did.

My experience has been exactly the opposite. I never liked my new King 2341 and sold it, but I really like my old 1240 (2340) and it only has three valves. There are people on both sides of this fence and some who like the old and the new models.

Eric "firmly in the old camp, but understanding differences of opinion and experience" L.

Hard to understand from the older 2340/2341's that I've played. I've tried many and liked the sound, but the older horns don't slot as well and are a lot more trouble to play, especially high. And the 2-piece construction makes it a pain to tote in its two hard cases. My "new" 2341 is better in almost every respect, but it's still a pain to drain ...

Bill Anderson

[Dan Schultz]

I play a late 1241/early 2341 regularly. I've eliminated the double crook on the 3rd valve circuit and moved the 1st valve slide to the top. If I didn't like the flexibility of being able to switch back and forth between the recording and upright bells, I would put on a fixed recording bell from an old 1240. What's most irritating about this horn (and all other Kings of this type that I've played) is that water collects above the 1st piston. The horn can be 'rocked' to make the water run on through to the main waterkey, but it's still a pain in the butt.

This is a great topic. I've seen lots of these horns but never bothered to chart the serial numbers and individual features like braces, tuning slides, and bell styles. I'd like to see someone do a database on features and serial numbers so we can pin down when the transition between the 1240 and 2340 horns actually happened. I know there was a period in the 70's/80's where they were sold under both model numbers.

[TMurphy]

I had a new-style 2341, that I bought for college the summer of 2001, shortly after the redesign. Matt Walters at Dillons built a new tuning slide for me (so if anyone out there has a "new" King with a raw brass tuning slide that doesn't have a water key, that might be mine). It was a good horn, and I was sorry to see it go....but I couldn't afford to keep it and still buy my current horn, which works much better for me.

I've only tried a handful of older kings, and though the sound was good, I found the leadpipe position made them very uncomfortable for me to hold.

[Lew]

Maybe it's just me, but I find my fixed bell 2341 to play much better than my detachable bell 2341 ever did.

My experience has been exactly the opposite. I never liked my new King 2341 and sold it, but I really like my old 1240 (2340) and it only has three valves. There are people on both sides of this fence and some who like the old and the new models.

Eric "firmly in the old camp, but understanding differences of opinion and experience" L.

Hard to understand from the older 2340/2341's that I've played. I've tried many and liked the sound, but the older horns don't slot as well and are a lot more trouble to play, especially high. And the 2-piece construction makes it a pain to tote in its two hard cases. My "new" 2341 is better in almost every respect, but it's still a pain to drain ...

Bill Anderson

I think the difference may be that "Eric" mentions the 1240. If it is the older style 1240, rather than a 2340 that could explain the difference. A number of people have commented on how they prefer the 1240/1241 to the older 2340/2341.

The difference could also have just been variation in individual instruments. I picked my 2341 from a group of 6 and there was only 1 other of the 6 that I thought played nearly as well. At least the newer 2341's have a reputation for having large differences between individual horns.

[tofu]

I had a new-style 2341, that I bought for college the summer of 2001, shortly after the redesign. Matt Walters at Dillons built a new tuning slide for me (so if anyone out there has a "new" King with a raw brass tuning slide that doesn't have a water key, that might be mine).

What was the reason for a new tuning slide?

[TMurphy]

I had a new-style 2341, that I bought for college the summer of 2001, shortly after the redesign. Matt Walters at Dillons built a new tuning slide for me (so if anyone out there has a "new" King with a raw brass tuning slide that doesn't have a water key, that might be mine).

What was the reason for a new tuning slide?

The horn played was quite a bit sharp...if I remember what Matt told me correctly, when they first started the production model of the redesigned 2341, one on the ferrules on the outer branches was a good deal shorter than on the prototype. Mine was one of this earlier horns (it also had the smaller valve buttons, most of the new ones have the same ones found on the Conn horns, I think). Matt made me the new (longer) tuning slide when I bought the horn....kept the original in the gig bag, but never used it. They fixed this problem in later versions of the horn.

If I got it wrong, I'm sure someone can correct me.

[Dan Schultz]

I had a new-style 2341, that I bought for college the summer of 2001, shortly after the redesign. Matt Walters at Dillons built a new tuning slide for me (so if anyone out there has a "new" King with a raw brass tuning slide that doesn't have a water key, that might be mine).

What was the reason for a new tuning slide?

The horn played was quite a bit sharp...if I remember what Matt told me correctly, when they first started the production model of the redesigned 2341, one on the ferrules on the outer branches was a good deal shorter than on the prototype. Mine was one of this earlier horns (it also had the smaller valve buttons, most of the new ones have the same ones found on the Conn horns, I think). Matt made me the new (longer) tuning slide when I bought the horn....kept the original in the gig bag, but never used it. They fixed this problem in later versions of the horn.
If I got it wrong, I'm sure someone can correct me.

Your explanation is resonable. The 1240/2340 Kings were basically a 'work in process'... with many manufacturing changes happending during the long production run of over 60 years. It's interesting that I've never heard any stories about Kings being sold with BOTH the forward bell and the upright bell. I have seen longer tuning slides with upright bell horns.

[ger]

This is a great topic. I've seen lots of these horns but never bothered to chart the serial numbers and individual features like braces, tuning slides, and bell styles. I'd like to see someone do a database on features and serial numbers so we can pin down when the transition between the 1240 and 2340 horns actually happened. I know there was a period in the 70's/80's where they were sold under both model numbers.

Dan,
You might wish to comment on the ' database' at www.xs4all.nl/~marge/king_2340_bbb_tuba.htm.

What I see: the transition to a straight leadpipe somewhere from serial number 276000 onwards, detachable bells from 362000, the ring on top of the #2 tuning slide being replaced by a knob somewhere between 360000 and 370000, and of course the change in slide crooks in the new ones (definitely 2340/2341).
But who is going to say what's a 2340 or 1240 if King doesn't know?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

My understanding is that the double loop in the 3rd valve slide, identifies the horn as a 1240/1241.

[Dan Schultz]

Dan, You might wish to comment on the ' database' at www.xs4all.nl/~marge/king_2340_bbb_tuba.htm

What I see: the transition to a straight leadpipe somewhere from serial number 276000 onwards, detachable bells from 362000, the ring on top of the #2 tuning slide being replaced by a knob somewhere between 360000 and 370000, and of course the change in slide crooks in the new ones (definitely 2340/2341).
But who is going to say what's a 2340 or 1240 if King doesn't know?

There are pictures of two of my horns on that web site.... The Eb serial number 178502 (with the added 4th piston) and the BBb serial number 274107. I think perhaps that a very old serial number for a detachable bell and straight-in leadpipe. I've modified the BBb King since that picture was taken and am sending a new picture to the webmaster. I've moved the 1st valve tuning slide to the top and eliminated the double loop on the 3rd valve wrap. This'll have folks scratching their heads in another 20 years! Not only do I have 21 1/2" front AND upright bells... but I also have a custom 17" bell that I put together from odds 'n ends.