Bill's Forum Rules

[LoyalTubist]

Joe (aka "Bloke") put up some rules about forum posting a while back but I have noticed some terrible stuff that (IMHO) needs addressing:

1. As long as you don't talk politics (or religion), there is freedom of speech here. Freedom of speech does not mean from consequences of what you say.
2. Know what you are talking about. If you are proven wrong, own up to it. I have made some misstatements here. I will admit when I am wrong (most recently involving the Conn factory in Abilene.)
3. Don't say anything against someone without just cause. Don't be mean. But if you are annoying, be prepared to reap the consequences.
4. If you don't know something, ASK! If it's embarrassing to ask openly, ask Wade ("the elephant"), me ("LoyalTubist"), or almost anyone else here. We won't blab it all over the TubeNet.
5. The language you use says a lot about you. Again, mistakes happen. Sometimes the shift doesn't go down when you type "I." Many of us here are annoyed by misspellings of simple words. Don't use the excuse, "I'm a musician... I don't have to spell words correctly." Talk like that helps rid our public (and private) schools of good music programs--I might be guilty of this myself, with regards to my comments about math classes. Be careful about how you use profanity. Unless it serves a purpose, it's wasted verbiage.
6. Check your posts after you post them. Make corrections. Make corrections even if someone has already replied.
7. Don't be afraid to delete posts. If you accidentally post a duplicate of what you just wrote, it's OK to delete the second one. Sometimes, posts are put up because of passion. As long as no one has replied to that post, you can still delete it.
8. Learn from what is written here. Some world class players put up some stuff here. My old teacher, Dr. Jim Self, makes a few posts here and he adds some valuable insights into his world of tuba playing.
9. Be careful about whom you quote. Most of us here are geeky enough to understand that quoting from Wikipedia is akin to quoting Biblical passages from the Readers Digest Condensed Version.
10. Don't say too much. Yes, I talk a lot. Yes I talk too much. Unless you number your posts (as this one is numbered), anything running over ten lines is too much to read, unless it's interesting or poignant.
11. Know the audience. Know what we TubeNetters are interested in. I realized the only other person who shares an interest here in Old Time Radio is Jim Self. At least, that's where the only replies I got to the posts I put up about the Fat Man came from.
12. Know how the board works. Know how to put up pictures, change the font size and styles. If it doesn't come out right, fix it!
13. Joe is still right!

[LoyalTubist]

14. Anyone posting something in the eBay section must have a link to the item they are talking about, unless it's a question about eBay.

[LoyalTubist]

Thanks, Joe.

I see Bob Compton went to the B-52 in Hanoi but not to the War Remnants Museum in Saigon. When I was teaching at Le Quy Don High School (across the street from it) I used to take my lunch box there. It's near the site of the old U.S. Embassy (which is now abandoned--the U.S. Consulate-General is located on half of what used to be the French Embassy; the other half now the French Consulate-General). It has most of the intact airplanes and some of the military vehicles which weren't confiscated by government officials for private use (you can still see ads in the paper selling U.S. Army Jeeps!) The people at the museum got to know me pretty well. They knew I didn't agree with what the museum stood for but they welcomed me anyway, without ever paying an admission fee. I asked one woman there, the one who collects tickets, and she said, "You are a nice person, Bill. It's good to have you around."

[kegmcnabb]

5. ...Many of us here are annoyed by misspellings of simple words. Don't use the excuse, "I'm a musician... I don't have to spell words correctly."

Careful! On this board that kind of talk will get you labeled as a "spelling Nazi!"

That said...I agree with you! Learn to spell, kids!:evil:

Perhaps I should say "kids of all ages!"

[Rick Denney]

Careful! On this board that kind of talk will get you labeled as a "spelling Nazi!"

That said...I agree with you! Learn to spell, kids!:evil:

Perhaps I should say "kids of all ages!"

The reason it will get you labeled thus is because it's rude. Would you correct pronunciation when chatting with friends at a social gathering? I would hope not. If the offender is a close friend, you might pull them aside later and explain the correct pronunciation. You would even then be depending on your close friendship to rob your correction of offense.

If someone's spelling consistently annoys you, and you think your friendship with them is strong enough to suggest improvement, then send them a private message.

The other issue is that people type fast and their fingers sometimes don't obey their brains. I've seen ghastly spelling and grammar errors in my own posts--mistakes I would never make normally. But it's a conversation, not a technical report or school essay.

I agree that it is important to spell words correctly and to use proper grammar, and that not doing so reflects on the writer's intelligence and care. And people who write poorly (not just because of spelling and grammar) must demonstrate more than people who write well to overcome that reaction on the part of their readers. But I would rather have real conversation, warts and all, than run people off because they are afraid of being corrected all the time.

Rick "searching this post extra carefully for the usual mistakes" Denney

[LoyalTubist]

How very American of you, Wade. I learned here in Vietnam that the term ad is an American word.

One day when I went to work, they had a copy of the Saigon Times on the main table to show the school's advertisement. They spent over $1,000 for this one notice.

"Nice ad," I commented.

The other teachers (English, Australian, Singaporean, and New Zealanders) gave me a very strange look, as if they didn't know what I was talking about.

"Oh... You mean the advert!"

I feel like 1/4 of my job in that school is teaching the other teachers how to speak American.

[LoyalTubist]

15 is not my rule. This thread says "Bill's rules." You are not Bill.

Sorry. I don't like it.

Some people continually make the same mistakes. You didn't read rule #1. Your rule contradicts that rule. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. You want your cake and you want to eat it.

Retract #15. It doesn't count.

[LoyalTubist]

Isn't that what I said to you in my PM to you?

[lgb&dtuba]

1. Don't make up unnecessary rules.
2. Any questions? Refer to rule #1.

[LoyalTubist]

Agreed, Jim. Agreed!

[LoyalTubist]

You have just shown what kind of man you are. Not just to me but to all of TubeNet.

I told you in a PM (that's PRIVATE message, not PUBLIC message) some things that you put on the open forum.

There was an article two weeks ago (7/31/2007) in USA Today which explained how rude the forums are getting. You exemplify that article.

Lighten up?

Well, guys... should I?

[TMurphy]

I just know I am going to regret this post eventually, but here it goes....

Bill, I enjoy your posts most of the time. You offer in interesting insight into a culture most of us don't know, and I appreciate that. But I really think, honestly, you are a bit out of line here.

viewtopic.php?t=16622

That is the thread you mentioned in your first post. If you'll notice, there are plenty of people other than Doc adding advice (note, it's advice, and not rules). Just because you start a thread, does not mean you get control over what other people post in response.

Bob's post was (in my eyes) a not-so-subtle way of calling out percieved rudeness on your part. It was not a very polite way to do it, but it was done. You sent him a PM, then you posted on the forum (a post which totally contradicted your own rule #1). Then, in response, you brought up the PM. The whole thing should've occured in PMs, if you really wanted it to stay private.

And Bob...you seem like a geniunely nice guy, if a bit overzealous. It might help you to put on the "filter" before you post, from time to time. My post count would be a lot higher if I responded to every post I wanted to (I'd make more posts I shouldn't, like this one. )


EVERYONE is less than polite, from time to time. The key is, as a community, even an internet one, not to harp on it and snipe each other. Someone screwed up, and if it's a big enough screw up, you deal with it, and move on. None of this petty back-and-forth nonsense.

Now, come on....back to the important discussion....should I get my beer glass lacquered, or silver-plated???

[Rick Denney]

Well, guys... should I?

Yes.

If you send me a PM that attacks me on the basis that my comment contradicts the notion that free speech may have consequences, I would be strongly tempted to respond in a way that tests your own ability to accept those consequences.

Rick "seeing no less obligation to be respectful in private messages than in public postings" Denney

[LoyalTubist]

I never posted a PM on a forum and I will never do it. Maybe it's naivete on my part. Yeah...

[kegmcnabb]

Careful! On this board that kind of talk will get you labeled as a "spelling Nazi!"

That said...I agree with you! Learn to spell, kids!:evil:

Perhaps I should say "kids of all ages!"

The reason it will get you labeled thus is because it's rude. Would you correct pronunciation when chatting with friends at a social gathering? I would hope not.

Absolutely Rick, I couldn't agree with you more but if you look at the post I (nor Bill in the original post, though I don't presume to speak for him) am not pointing a finger at anyone in particular. The point is simply that language is important and one's use and command of that language is the first impression one makes on a board such as this. Care should be taken.

We all take shortcuts. We all type too fast and then hit the submit button. We all make mistakes. In a discussion on mouthpieces I once mispelled bowls as bowels, much to the hilarity of all. Were other posters rude in pointing that out? I don't think so.

As an educator I have parents upset when I give a lesser grade to students who don't bother to spell correctly. I mean, I know that they are only music classes, but come on..at least make an effort. It does reflect on you and it does affect how people come to look at you.

I also realize that this board has many, many posters of different ages and education levels, many for whom English is not their first language, and some who may have other issues related to spelling. To point out their individual spelling shortcomings would indeed be rude and I hope that I would never do that. If, however, making a general statement that as a group we might try to learn to spell is rude then, as the kids say today...my bad.

Now that I have taken up way too (oops, almost wrote "to") much time on this I will take this opportunity to apologize for the bandwidth taken and suggest we move to another thread and talk something more substantial...food, maybe.

[kegmcnabb]

There was no point to moving my post from the one thread in Feedback into this thread. It served no purpose.

Is this addressed to me? If so, I am not sure I understand.

I was simply making (what I thought was) a humorous observation that some people on the board (and not just in the thread you reference) seem to get upset when it is suggested that a little care might be used in spelling and posting. I vaguely remembered the reference to "Spelling Nazi" and threw it in.

Obviously, my attempt at humor failed. I apologize. I stand by my opinion on the matter, but certainly had no intention of upsetting anyone.

On an aside, it does seem that the board is a little irritable lately. More beer...more food!

[Rick Denney]

We all take shortcuts. We all type too fast and then hit the submit button. We all make mistakes. In a discussion on mouthpieces I once mispelled bowls as bowels, much to the hilarity of all. Were other posters rude in pointing that out? I don't think so.

There is a difference between throwing someone under the bus for an amusing faux pas and correcting their spelling and grammar. We all the know the difference. Even the corrected person knows the difference. Nobody every complained about that (at least, not seriously.)

But that isn't what I was talking about, and we all know that, too.

I've gone into English Teacher mode myself a time or two, and gotten ripped for it. And deservedly so.

Rick "also a teacher, of people whose command of the language is worst of all: adult engineers" Denney

[iiipopes]

OK, now that the hot summer has caused venting bordering on forum flatulence, just where is that picture of the guy looking at the tuba bell full of beer?