Making tuning slides move more freely on a NEW tuba.

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:50 pm

Me too...considering a trip to see bloke...

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:02 pm

Sandpaper is too rough. Use a steel wool pad.

That wasn't one of the choices.

josh wagner · Post by **josh wagner** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:04 pm

I've been playing around on the Thor that i'm testing out and it seems to be rather nice. I do say that the tuning slides are a tight fit. Is it suppose to be that tight of fit?

Tigertuba · Post by **Tigertuba** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:32 pm

the hetmans light tuning slide oil (#4 i believe) works pretty good for tighter slides. a good/inexpensive alterative to taking it to a tech.

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Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:41 pm

If simply cleaning the slide with soap and water.... then applying a LIGHT lubricant doesn't do the trick, you need to take it to a reliable repair tech. There could be other problems that you can't fix yourself.... like tubing that is not properly aligned or small dings that are causing problems. Yes.... it IS possible for even a brand new horn to have manufacturing defects!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:58 pm

Slides that you want to move are no different than piston valves. Except that slides made of just brass are softer.

Treat them with the same respect. You wouldn't go after your valves with sandpaper or steel wool without knowing what you're doing!!!

You don't want your slides leaking, or falling out of your horn, either. This is not rocket science. It can be done inexpensively. Even trumpeters have managed to do this with their third slides for ages.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:04 pm

If you have to ask, you don't have the skill to do it.

I had the same problem, and took the tuba to a good repair tech, and got a great result. I also had the first (rotary) valve vented as well as the first valve slide lapped for easy moving. For those in the Boston area, I can highly recommend Jim Becker at Osmun Music.

After I had the valve slide lapped, I was able to adjust the amount of force needed to move it by mixing high and low viscosity lubricants until it moved just the way I like. If the slide has a pull ring (hightly recommended), you can put a piece of light cord on it to keep it from coming all the way out. It helps to keep all of the pieces of your tuba together!

Cheers,
Allen

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:03 am

before you start sanding...are you sure it's not an alignment problem?

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:12 pm

Personally, I would not use sandpaper or any type of steel wool, regardless of how fine it is. YMMV. I did the steel wool thing on an old horn of mine and have since found another method that works for me. I think if you want a great result, you really have two options.

1. Take it to a great repair shop. Let them do it for you. If the inner and outer slides are misaligned, they will fix that for you, too, as well as get the slides at 100%.

2. Elbow grease, frequent cleanings, and patience. I like this version as long as there aren't any manufacturing issues. I work the slides as much as possible, bathe the horn frequently (helps the valves, too), and keep at it. I also use a flute/recorder cleaning rod to get the grit and crap out of the insides of both sets of slides. I think this yields the best do-it-yourself result in the long run.

If you sand it or steel-wool it too much, it's much harder to put material back on.

Good luck.

tokuno · Post by **tokuno** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:11 pm

I had a trigger installed on the main tuning of my Besson 967.
Came back a tad stiff and wouldn't return well, but the repair tech was too far away.
Also, I picked up a brand new BBb, and the 1st valve grabber was too stiff.
This is what I did, and I'm pleased with the results.

If the slide is reasonably loose, but sticks just a tad in spots, a permanent marker is a find stand-in for prussian blue.
Clean the slide well (solvent), then "paint" the slide with a magic marker (sharpie works), then insert and withdraw the slide - if there's a convex spot, it'll be readily apparent, and you can take it down a tad with an abrasive.

When you're done with the marker, alcohol or just about any other solvent takes it right off.

That worked for the Besson.

For the tuba, the slide was too tight from the get-go. To be conservative, you can pick up some crocus cloth, but that might take too much time and patience.
I went for the hammer-and-tongs method, and used some fine emery cloth to really take it down. (I thought steel wool would be too hard to control, and I didn't want to mar the slide finish - I was too lazy to mask it with tape). I used to detail my own cars (pre-kids, when I had time), so I took out the emery grinding marks with auto polish - started with a compounder, then finish polish smoothed out all marks and put the sheen back in.

BTW, brass polish and a paper garbage sack make a dandy "finish" polisher.

josh wagner · Post by **josh wagner** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:42 am

What i was told about the Thor was that Jens doesn't do alot if any slide pulling and in his thoughts that the horn played well enough in tune with stationary slides that he had to the design to be with tight slides.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:34 am

The best thing to do would be to clean the slides and then add some lubricant (I use hetmans and it is the best, I feel). If this does not work and the horn doesn't play in tune, then there is a problem that needs to be handled.

A friend of mine was playing a Thor for a while to test it, and he had the same tuning slide issue. After taking it in to a shop, he was told that the reason for the tightness was due to a misalignment in the tuning slide system and that a bit of work would have to be done to free them up.

Now, this may not be the case for all the Thors....but I would much rather see someone try the lubricant and then take it to PRO repair man, rather than ruin such a nice horn.

Just my few cents.

Getzeng50s · Post by **Getzeng50s** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:52 pm

to get your slides moving exactly the way ull like them, i suggest a highly qualified tech. they can tell you if you need lapping, or slide adjustments. they could move perfectly, but your slides could be off kilter. either way, they can tell you whats up, and make it move better than you could imagine!

My PT6 was great when i bought it. i had all my slides aligned, ports (bore) hand finished , 1st and 4th valve vented and lapped. I could not be happier! after the work, u can use one of many hetmen slide oil's to make the slide move as fast as you want!

custom work, by the right guy, is AWESOME!

josh wagner · Post by **josh wagner** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:17 pm

josh wagner wrote:What i was told about the Thor was that Jens doesn't do alot if any slide pulling and in his thoughts that the horn played well enough in tune with stationary slides that he had to the design to be with tight slides.

bttmbow · Post by **bttmbow** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:11 pm

Don't do anything to your horn yet. Play it. Bitch about it.

Eventually, you will grow tired of bitching about it, and at that point, you might want to get somebody to fix it for you.

Just an idea,
CJH

josh wagner · Post by **josh wagner** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:39 pm

maybe a slightly offended laugh?

bttmbow · Post by **bttmbow** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:39 pm

DON'T be offended, please! Laugh, of course, but realize that some jobs are best left for seasoned brass technicians, and maybe not you.

You can make your horn work well enough for you now, but when you've had enough of not being able to move your slides, you'll know it. Just deal with it long enough to figure out what you want to change: 1st valve only? 4th, etc....

PM or email, if you are still bewildered.
CJH

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:20 am

Look at a trombone slide. (The hand slide, not the tuning slide)
The inner tubing contacts the outer tubing only in the last few inches, where it has a slightly greater diameter. I use that same idea when I want a tuba valve slide to move easily, because I want to have a little friction so the slide won't fall out, and I want that friction to be uniform over its full range of motion. My Nirschl valve section came that way from the factory, so I am not alone in this opinion. After making sure that the alignment is right I take a lot of metal off most of the inner tubes, but I don't touch the last inch and a half, roughly. Then I use the magic marker to see where it needs trimming. Crocus cloth first, then coarse steel wool, then fine steel wool. Always make sure that the tube you are working on is supported by a wooden dowel that is firmly held in a vise; it's very easy to mess up the alignment by bending the u-tube slightly. As with any work done on an expensive piece of equipment, it is best to practice first on a junker. This is not a difficult operation once you get the feel for it.

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:58 am

Art Hovey wrote: As with any work done on an expensive piece of equipment, it is best to practice first on a junker. This is not a difficult operation once you get the feel for it.

If you're the owner, and it's your first expensive horn - no problem. AFTER you work on it, it will be a junker.

TubeNet

Making tuning slides move more freely on a NEW tuba.

I have a rather new C tuba and the tuning slides are difficult to move. What is the recommended method for freeing them?

I had this same challenge on a couple horns