Bydlo

[MartyNeilan]

my teacher claims it should ONLY be played on euph.

wait... I don't have a teacher anymore

[sc_curtis]

wait... I don't have a teacher anymore

Not true. We become our own teachers. The day we stop being students is the day we quit our quest for improvement.





So I guess you're saying YOU could beat up his teacher?

[Rick Denney]

I'm sure some people have done it, I was wondering if anyone had specific examples and/or stories about the tooba player playing it on euph, instead of a tromboner.

Since I have mentioned that the player had difficulty with it, I won't mention names. But I have witnessed two examples of professional tuba players using a euph for Bydlo, and one of them struggled.

I've also witness three performances where the player used an F tuba, and one of them struggled.

I've never seen anyone do it on a contrabass, and I've never been there when a trombonist or outside euphonium player did it.

Some have it written into their contracts that it will be passed to a trombonist. Many others speak of using the Alex 151G tenor tuba as the ideal instrument (in my opinion, the Alex 151 is to a euphonium as a BBb Alex is to a BBb Besson 994, wide variations on the same instrument).

Rick "thinking NO pro takes this solo lightly" Denney

[windshieldbug]

"thinking NO pro takes this solo lightly"

Right you are. It's what Bolero is to a principal trombonist. If you do it well, the upside is a pleasant moment. If you don't, the downside is that you go down in flames with the whole world watching...

[OldsRecording]

If your G# sounds like a blue jay farting in an empty silo, then you shouldn't be doing this on tuba. Roger

One word.....wow....

A bluejay farting in a empty silo. sounds crazy, no? But in our little village of Tubenet, every one of us is like a bluejay farting in an empty silo, trying to scratch out a pleasant, simple tune without breaking his neck...

[Mojo workin']

Reminds me of Burt Reynolds in the movie STICK, where the albino villain is hanging from a balcony railing 20 or so floors above a swimming pool and Burt says, "Why don't you push real hard? You might hit the water." Villain plunges to his death....

Why don't you push real hard, you might hit the G#?

[eupher61]

A particular second-tier (at best) orchestra was doing Pictures for a TV program. Mr Tuba does it on CC. 2 concerts to nail it.

NOPE. Missed it both times. Had a special session JUST to record "Bydlo", at a lot of expense.

Think he'll try it again ever???

[Rick Denney]

Crap; now I'm starting to rethink getting a 1291 instead of an Eb!

Don't be silly.

1. Pictures is a war horse but it's just one work. You'll see Shostakovich or Prokofiev just as often, and you wouldn't want to play that on a bass tuba if you could help it.

2. Bydlo is just one movement. The accompaniment part is just that--you have the basses to back you up. But the solo is all tuba. The rest of the work on a bass tuba? I don't think so. The Ravel arrangement is a power arrangement like a lot of 20th-century music. It benefits from a diet of red meat. I expect Ravel was shaking his head sadly when he heard it on the small French C tuba.

Rick "who could always borrow a euph if necessary" Denney

[Wyvern]

I was wondering - If a tubist is having trouble reaching that high register on their tuba, will a euphonium really help that much? Surely the result is mainly down to who is playing it, rather than the instrument they are using.

Is there anyone here, who could not play it on tuba, but managed to perform successfully with a borrowed euph?


Jonathan "who was pleased to perform it a few years back on his Eb (after, much, much prior practice)"

[eupher61]

I know I can do it on euph. I can do it on F, too, and while I have the range on BBb/CC, I wouldn't play Bydlo on it. In the euph range, it's not extreme at all.

[windshieldbug]

I was wondering - If a tubist is having trouble reaching that high register on their tuba, will a euphonium really help that much? Surely the result is mainly down to who is playing it, rather than the instrument they are using.

NOT if they are also using a proper euphonium mouthpiece. Then it plays quite easily...

[MikeMason]

Let's just audition based on serious criterion.Shininess and most macho model name...

[Rick Denney]

I was wondering - If a tubist is having trouble reaching that high register on their tuba, will a euphonium really help that much?

Yes.

It's a matter of security. On F, the G# is quite close to many other (incorrect) partials. On the euphonium, the target is a lot wider.

And on F, getting the characteristic tone much harder than on euphonium. That may not be an issue for a pro, but it would glow in the dark with me.

Rick "whose range is no better on F than on Bb, but who misses far fewer high-register notes on F than on Bb" Denney

[RSMorgan]

2. Bydlo is just one movement. The accompaniment part is just that--you have the basses to back you up. But the solo is all tuba. The rest of the work on a bass tuba? I don't think so. The Ravel arrangement is a power arrangement like a lot of 20th-century music. It benefits from a diet of red meat. I expect Ravel was shaking his head sadly when he heard it on the small French C tuba.

I thought as you did, Rick; the first time I played it, I did Bydlo on my B&S F (poorly--I hadn't had the F long enough to be used to it), and the rest of the piece on my 188. However, I recently played it again (with 20 years more experience and practice on F), and did it all on my B&S. Bydlo went relatively well, and I played the rest of the piece on F, also. I've come to think that much of the rest of the piece benefits from a brighter sound that blends with the trombones, than a darker sound that provides the fundamental and stands apart from the bones. I tried it all on F so that I wouldn't have to schlep two horns, thought about the effects, and liked the result (this time. . .)

Richard (having played his last Bydlo) Morgan

[Allen]

This has been a most educational thread. Let's see: I just learned that a contrabass tuba isn't so good at imitating that little euphonium in C that the French have mis-named a tuba. I learned that a bass tuba is better at that job. And, I have read the claim that a euphonium is yet better at imitating that French euphonium! Will wonders never cease?

Actually, looking at the progression above, I just had a thought. The ideal Bydlo instrument might be an Eb alto horn! No more problems hitting that pesky G#. Of course, flugelhorn players might suggest that the G# is even easier on their instrument, but I expect that we low brass people could shout that down.

Ever more musically yours,
Allen

[eupher61]

This has been a most educational thread. Let's see: I just learned that a contrabass tuba isn't so good at imitating that little euphonium in C that the French have mis-named a tuba. I learned that a bass tuba is better at that job. And, I have read the claim that a euphonium is yet better at imitating that French euphonium! Will wonders never cease?

Actually, looking at the progression above, I just had a thought. The ideal Bydlo instrument might be an Eb alto horn! No more problems hitting that pesky G#. Of course, flugelhorn players might suggest that the G# is even easier on their instrument, but I expect that we low brass people could shout that down.

Ever more musically yours,
Allen

you really haven't read the thread then.

[Eupharitone]

A Euphonium with the largest bore possible and played with the darkest, broadest sound possible should be used...a Euphonium can easily sound too bright for representing a hulking ox cart....but an F Tuba can sound too screechy in the upper register.

It's a shame there isn't an instrument that's both safe for the range and easy to play....and gets the right sound across during the entire course of the piece, like an Ab Tuba (er, Euphonium) or something.

[Rick Denney]

I think it would be great with a bit of edge in it, instead of a big "pillowy" contrabass.

Who said anything about "pillowy"? Even my Holton is not pillowy, when it's played properly. I do not share the dark, darker, darkest objective of some tuba players. I like that Holton precisely because it isn't pillowy.

I've heard the work played in a lot of different ways, with the non-Bydlo stuff on everything from a Miraphone 188 to a Yorkbrunner. I've never heard anyone really come across as pillowy.

I think my favorite sound for this work is an Alex, played by someone who knows how.

With the trombone players using equipment 50% bigger than the French pea-shooter stuff, getting a good balance from the tuba will be lots of work with a small instrument. I suppose the choice depends on the overall size and power of the orchestra, in addition to the hall.

Rick "looking for the two C's: Color and Clarity" Denney

[Allen]

<<quotation>>

you really haven't read the thread then.

Ah, the difficulties of being understood in a text-only medium when one doesn't use "smilies." I had read the entire thread. My post was intended to be sarcastic, and used hyperbole.

I'll make a direct statement: The instrument that Maurice Ravel scored for in the Bydlo solo would be called a euphonium in English. The French use the word tuba for the same thing. To call it a tuba part is to mistranslate from French to English. To play that solo on anything but a euphonium is to go against Ravel's intentions and against common sense.

A combination of ignorant conductors and macho tubists has created a terrible tradition, in which even the best professionals have cracked notes (I've heard it!) trying to play music that is inappropriate for the bass or contrabass tuba. That there a few tubists who can pull it off does not contradict my point. What's next, the Stars & Stripes piccolo solo played **at piccolo pitch**?

I thought sarcasm was the best response to this nonsense. And, when young tubists ask about how to play Bydlo, they should be told, "it's a euphonium solo, not a tuba solo."

Allen

[eupher61]

to call a "French C tuba" a euphonium shows you've never played one. (I have, briefly. and played Bydlo on it.)

That instrument has been discussed many times here, and it just ain't no euph.