Miraphone Valve Venting

[Eric B]

I've been considering having the valves on my Miraphone 186 vented. I read that Alan Baer vented all of his to improve slurs. I've also read that Mirphone used to vent their valves. I purchased my student model 186 CC (4 valves) new in 1999. I don't think mine are vented.

Is anybody familiar with Miraphone's history of venting valves as a standard practice?

Do they still do it?

If they discontinued the practice, what year did that occur?

About how much does it cost to have a professional repairman vent 4 valves?

I'm going to see Joe Sellmansberger in about an hour, so I'll get his sage advice too!

[Richard Murrow]

Eric,

To my knowledge, Miraphone has never vented valves as a standard procedure until the 1291 came along. It is now a standard feature on all 1291s and 1292s.

Richard Murrow

[Roger Lewis]

the Firebird comes with all the rotary valves vented.

Just my devalued $0.02

Roger

[Eric B]

Thanks, Richard and Roger. When I slur I often get a "bump". Do you think it would be worthwhile to have them all vented? About how much could I expect to pay?

[Rick Denney]

Eric,

To my knowledge, Miraphone has never vented valves as a standard procedure until the 1291 came along. It is now a standard feature on all 1291s and 1292s.

Richard Murrow

Ray Grim's 186-5U CC, made in the 70's, has vented rotary valve casings, and the venting was definitely done by the factory (Ray bought the instrument new).

My late-70's 186 BBb Miraphone did not come with vented valves. Maybe Miraphone did it to their C tubas, or their five-valve tubas, or just on request and Ray got lucky. I don't know.

To answer the question: Vented rotary valves require a hole in the casing that opens into the small gap that connects the ports on the rotor. The hole must be small and placed in just the right spot to avoid leakage.

Joe usually offsets the hole slightly to get it further from the ports when the valve is engaged. He'll show you.

It's not expensive, though the valves must be disassembled to do the work. Have it done during a chem clean when the valves will be apart anyway.

Rick "who generally prefers vented valves" Denney

[tubajoe]

My 186 4U CC (c. 1980) was vented at the factory.

[Eric B]

I don't think mine are vented.

I pulled every valve slide and each popped upon pressing the corresponding valve. Ergo, most definately, none of my valves are vented.

[Roger Lewis]

sure when this other change occurred, but, do all your rotary your rotary valves turn in the same direction?" This was another improvement made by Miraphone a while back, but I'm not sure when. The old models had two valves (1&2) that turned INTO the air stream and the other two (3&4) turned ACROSS the air stream. This will cause a "bump" in a slur as well. A good mechanic can change the plates and re-set the valves so that they all turn into the air stream for a nominal cost.

just my $0.02
Roger

[Eric B]

sure when this other change occurred, but, do all your rotary your rotary valves turn in the same direction?"

I had not considered that issue. That is interesting. Yes, valves (1&2) turn into the air stream (counterclockwise rotation) and valves (3&4) turn accross the air stream (clockwise rotation).

[Roger Lewis]

and I would look into having that changed at the same time you have the valves vented (In for a penny, in for a pound). All the newer Miraphones come with all the valves turning into the air stream and this does make them play more smoothly. Both of these changes should make the difference you are seeking.

Roger

[jeopardymaster]

I remember that Mirafone was venting the valves on their CCs as standard practice in the mid 70's. I bought a 184 in December 1974, and it arrived vented.

Jim Self might be able to weigh in on Mirafone's thinking and timing; I'm pretty sure he was consulting (together with Roger Bobo and Tommir Johnson) with Mike Zucek out in Sun Valley in the early to mid-70's. Jim picked out my 184 for me, I know that much for deadsure because I asked him to.

[windshieldbug]

My 184 CC came vented at that same time.

[Ed Jones]

I have owned, played extensively or had students who had Mirafone CC tubas over a period of thirty years. The older horns had vented valves. Those included '72 and '78 vintage 186's, early '80's 188's, and a late 80's 188. Horns from the mid 90's on did not have vented valves. I'm not sure about horns from the early '90's. I have also seen/played BBb's from the same eras and none had vented valves.

Just my observation.

[tbn.al]

I have owned, played extensively or had students who had Mirafone CC tubas over a period of thirty years. The older horns had vented valves.

Just my observation.

It may be a CC thing as well. My 184 BBb is a 76 model and none of the valves were vented.

[Richard Murrow]

In '88 or '89 I picked out a 188 from the "then" lone distributor of Mirapnone/Mirafone and it did not have vented valves. During the 4+ hours that I spent at the distribution warehouse none of the horns that I played had vented valves. This was during the period of the "Presto Valves". Perhaps the venting was an option that could be added from the distributor. At that time they did have an in house brass technician at the distribution center.

Richard Murrow

[windshieldbug]

I don't know that it was an "after the fact" option... mine has a solid fitting around the hole, that I think would be VERY hard to add on over a lacquered casing, and hard to re-do without being detectable...

[Rick Denney]

I don't know that it was an "after the fact" option... mine has a solid fitting around the hole, that I think would be VERY hard to add on over a lacquered casing, and hard to re-do without being detectable...

Curious--I've never seen that. Ray's Miraphone just had simple holes.

He bought his new from a retailer, but that doesn't mean the distributor didn't do it after arrival from Germany. On the other hand, it was always the same distributor and importer during the 70's, so that doesn't really explain the variation. I suspect it was just the mood the factory was in at the time. The Miraphone co-op is well known for being moody at times, heh, heh.

Rick "seeing enough evidence to reject all generalizations" Denney

[Roger Lewis]

piston horns that Miraphone vents the valves on are the 1291 and the 1292. Just about any horn can be vented as my Yorkbrunner and 1291 BBb were handled fairly easily by my mechanic here. They do help the horn slur more smoothly and make it easier on the player.

If you get a 1291 BBb, get the pistons vented - you will definitely see the difference.

Roger

[Richard Murrow]

OK gentlemen, here's is the word straight from the horse's mouth! I contacted Christian Niedermaier, chief design engineer with Miraphone, for venting history and here are his comments direct from Waldkraiburg, Germany:

"The venting on the valves was done at the factory between the years 1970 to 1980-1982. The valves were vented on
the CC-Tubas 186 and 188. Why it was stopped in the mid 80´, I don´t know. I hope this helps.
Christian"

So hopefully this explains why we have had differing opinions on this and now we are all enlightened! It also explains why the large number 186 and 188's that I tried in '88 at the warehouse were not vented.

Thanks to Christian!

Richard Murrow

[Eric B]

Thanks to all for contributing to the discussion. We've all learned a little more about one facet of Miraphone's history.